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First Vortex Debugging

This area is for the discussion of BB or airsoft sub machine guns, and or other small arms such as pellets.
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First Vortex Debugging

Unread postAuthor: Panzerfaust » Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:40 pm

Stayed after school today to use the school's drill press and saws to build my vortex gun. Everything went great, but then while i was assembling and fitting everything at home, i managed to pull defeat from the jaws of victory. I had a B-E-A-utifull vortex block, and i managed to slip with a drill and take a gouge out of the vortex hole..... sh*t. Well, assembled everything anyway, and fired her up. Performance was... odd. It achieves momentary spurts of extreme ROF, and is the most inaccurate thing i have ever seen. I blame the accuracy on the fact that i had the barrel in my backpack and it got bent. I tried to straighten it out, but it of course no longer perfectly straight. The front end is also quite leaky as it was sealed with hot glue that did not work, but i expected this and expect to overcome it in the period of getting all my kinks worked out.
I actually do not blame the vortex block for the bad ROF, i think it has more to do with a feed sysytem that cant keep up. The gun would fire brief spurts if i gave the bb's time time to re-settle into the vortex block after each burst. I plan to make another vortex block sometime this week just incase that is the problem (it does have a large gouge in it). My shop teacher told me a store that would sell springs and it sounds like just about everything.

Quoting my design thread:
Spudinator:
And as to sealing the plug, do you happen to have access to any type of lathe? Even a wood lathe can cut O-ring grooves, all you need is an 1/8" square notch cutter, just make sure the thing is good and centered. Cut two grooves (if you are able) 1/2" apart to keep the plug straight. Hardwares carry all sorts of O-rings, some even sell large sets (harbor freight is where I got mine), so just bring your plug and body along and find which one fits.

Actually the school does have two small wood lathes. If i cant get anything else to work resorting to o-rings would be a good idea, id rather not if i dont have to though. I was recomended to harbor freight by sgort, so it much be good. mb il look there too.

If pictures would really help i could take some. But i warn you, its extremely ghetto.
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Unread postAuthor: f.c » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:25 pm

can we see a picture of the vortex gun ? but otherwise it sounds like you're barrel is you're problem. inaccuracy can also be caused by you're ammo.
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Unread postAuthor: veginator » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:40 pm

I think it's the barrel because the same exact thing happened to me but my block was just about perfect but the barrel is bent and jams alot.
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Unread postAuthor: Panzerfaust » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:47 pm

I was able to striaghten out the barrel almost perfectly, and i dont think it is jamming because air continues to flow out the barrel even when the gun stops firing. Remember that the gun is leaking out the front and has a gouge out of the vortex hole making one section of it not entirely round. I really dont blame the barrel for anything other than the innacuracy
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Unread postAuthor: BigJon » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:23 pm

did you load a lot of bb's in it because in my gun if i don't put alot of bb's in it will shoot in little bursts like you said. But like f.c. i would like to see a picture of your vortex block.
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Unread postAuthor: TwitchTheAussie » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:28 pm

Pictures please. I wanna see how bad that gouge is :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: Panzerfaust » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:07 pm

Here you go:
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Unread postAuthor: iPaintball » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:17 pm

Ouch, that gouge is pretty bad. What is the bloack made out of? PVC?
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Unread postAuthor: singularity » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:17 pm

i suggest filling in the gouge with some epoxy putty or 60 minute epoxy don't worry about making the block again epoxy is the answer. for the barrel issue buy a tightbore, you can pick up a madbull 6.03mm tight bore for $30-$35 (i am assuming this is an airsoft vortex gun) just make sure you ahve some nice bbs to go with it.
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be sure to check out my <a href="http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/ak-style-airsoft-vortex-gun-t10959.html">AK Styled Vortex Gun</a> and my <a href="http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/at-4-t9627.html">AT-4 Rocket</a>

upcoming projects... finalized clip fed BBMG and ball point pen sniper
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Unread postAuthor: noname » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:55 pm

Hmmmm. I really have no idea what to say. The gouge probably doesn't help a whole lot, and could really screw up the working of the block.
Instead of BBs getting blasted around the vortex hole and out the barrel, any of them that are on the left side of the block will bounce straight back down into the bottom of the gun and won't shoot out. What's the hole in the bottom of the block for?
AS for your B-E-A-utiful (what the hell? You capitalize the first three letters and get bored or something? :lol: ), I usually try to aim for something more like <a href="http://www.spudfiles.com/uploader/uploadFiles/blocks.jpg">this.</a> Then again, it is your first, or one of your first, so I can't really blame you for being enthusiastic.
With my first vortex gun, it didn't shoot. Period. Nothing. Air came shooting out of the barrel but no BBs. I ripped out the whole front of the gun, yanked the shrouds off the vortex block, stuffed everything back together (now extremely leaky), and it shot! Then came the making of too many guns to keep track of, along with dozens of vortex blocks.
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Unread postAuthor: Panzerfaust » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:37 am

B-E-A-utifull, prounounced bee-ee-ay-utiful... its from a jim carrey movie. The hole was the second way i almost pulled defeat from the jaws of victory, thats the original hole for the mounting screw. it interefered with the air hole however and i had to mount it from the top. The block is made of PVC. Is that picture suggesting i file out the front for increased flow?

Also, important note. When i took the block out of the gun the barrel was protruding back into the vortex hole. if it was like this during testing im sure it would have screwed things up. The block was hot-glued in on the front in a failed seal attempt, and took a tremendous amount of wacking to get out. This wacking could have jiggled the barrel backwards, meaning it was forwards in the correct spot during testing.

Im thinking that trying to fill that gouge in with epoxy is a good idea. after filling it in i could probably run a drill through the hole again to smooth it out. How important is it that all the air goes out the barrel and none out past the block? Of course all out the barrel is ideal but how much would it be affecting my performance?
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Unread postAuthor: noname » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:01 pm

Leaks in a vortex gun are perfectly OK, as long as the parts are secure enough to not get shot off the gun's body. It hurts performance a little, but they are acceptable.
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Unread postAuthor: Panzerfaust » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:13 pm

ITS WORKING.
Fixed the block with epoxy, widened the front end of the block for better flow (kinda like your pictures noname), and most importantly of all, sealed the front. It was leaking SO badly that even with repaired block it was putting out bad ROF and the bb's went about 20 feet. I wrapped the pvc rod in about 30 layers of teflon tape (alot, but the stuffs cheap) And now have a near perfect seal. Fixing that leaking front end really breathed life into it, suddenly it had high ROF and much increased power. I think the ROF could be increased too, as i ran out of bb's from all the failed tests and dident have enough to fill it properly. I REALLY need a new air compressor though, 5.5 gallons runs it for about 15 seconds... if that. Been eying this http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=112 For awhile...
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Unread postAuthor: noname » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:23 pm

I use a 3 hp, 5 gallon compressor and I can shoot for 45 seconds straight (without the compressor on) without the pressure dropping below 85 psi, starting from 115.
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Unread postAuthor: Panzerfaust » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:58 am

Whats the scfm? frankly my comprressor just has a terrible compressor, only 2.6scfm and the actual compressing cylinder part is like two inches tall. Actually i just found in the tractor supply co. ad, for the same price as my current compressor, a 15 gallon 3.7scfm beauty. Dang i regret buying the one i have.
Theres no way you can shoot for that long... im setting out reg to 100 btw. Maybe your blowgun has smaller flow or something....
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