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Old .177 pellet (slug) Gun

This area is for the discussion of BB or airsoft sub machine guns, and or other small arms such as pellets.
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Old .177 pellet (slug) Gun

Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:53 am

Hey spudders, i have an old Breakbarrel springer from like the 1940's to 50's
It belonged to my uncle then my father, it could even be older because it may have belonged to my grandfather before that (i'm not sure)
Anyway it has had the .177 spring replaced with a .22 spring way back in the 60's by my uncle who reckoned he used to shoot flies off the back fence at 15 feet!
My questions are in regards to the refurbishment of this family hierloom.
What would be the best way to find out it's exact make and model? There are some markings on the rifle but i will have to inform you guys of those tommorrow as i have not got immediate access to it. (Illegal)
I think it may be a "Jacarda" not sure if it is spelt correctly.
What would be the best way to go about the refurbishment? (i will do all the work and or machining). I got taught to shoot with a .22 rimfire and when me moved to the big smoke all i could use was this air-rifle, and it has a special place in my heart for many reasons.
Any help would be appriceated greatly, preferably from people that have had pellet gun experiance.

Silverdooty comes to mind!
Ya out there old fella?

Thanks for reading if you have got his far :D

P.S. I will take pics and post them tomorrow.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:13 am

Definitely post pictures, particularly of any markings - if I can't help then I have a lot of contacts that will surely be able to identify it.

Anyway it has had the .177 spring replaced with a .22 spring way back in the 60's by my uncle who reckoned he used to shoot flies off the back fence at 15 feet!


For a given spring, a 0.22 barrel will give higher power than a 0.177 one, so I'm guessing fitting a 0.22 spring actually reduced the power.

What would be the best way to go about the refurbishment? (i will do all the work and or machining).


The most obvious component that will need replacing is the piston seal. Modern rifles have synthetic seals, in which case your machining skills and materials will come in handy if you can't find a replacement. Rifles of that era are more usually found with a leather washer, again making your own should not be too much of a chore.

Other than that have a look at the trigger sears for wear and have a look inside the piston tube to check for any scratches.

If the finish was blued it probably has an amount surface rust depending how well it was taken care of. If it just needs a touch-up there are home bluing kits you can use, but a whole re-blue will need the help of a gunsmith.
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:28 am

Thanks JSR, from top to bottom the blueing is still :) it has been stored in a leather case indoors. The piston tube i fear will have many imperfections due to my abuse as an 11-12 year old, i must have put a good 1500 pellets through it without any lube- not even a look :shock:
Im sure to have a good material (like glass filled ptfe) for the seal, maybe replacing the whole piston would be a good idea. As for the spring do you recommend replacing it with a modern .177 spring?
I will post pics tomorrow afternoon, it's 7:30pm here (just thought i'd tell!)
Finally the stock, where the bolts go through the wood has become loose, do you think filling the holes with epoxy or similar and re-drilling these holes would be cool?

I know wood becoming loose is insane but i can't think of how to describe it :P
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:33 am

Come to think of it the blueing could use some work :wink:
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:50 am

As for the spring do you recommend replacing it with a modern .177 spring?


let's see what model it is and see if there's an original spare or a modern equivalent.

Finally the stock, where the bolts go through the wood has become loose, do you think filling the holes with epoxy or similar and re-drilling these holes would be cool?


Sounds like a valid solution :)

love the sig btw :D
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:55 am

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Unread postAuthor: beebs111 » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:03 am

a .22 spring would increase velociity when used with .177 pellets, maybe im just really tired as i just woke up, but it seems like jack: you have it backwards
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:22 am

beebs111 wrote:a .22 spring would increase velociity when used with .177 pellets, maybe im just really tired as i just woke up, but it seems like jack: you have it backwards


I get your "gist" beebs
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:38 am

beebs111 wrote:a .22 spring would increase velociity when used with .177 pellets, maybe im just really tired as i just woke up, but it seems like jack: you have it backwards


I don't, actually ;)

Lets take a standard spring air rifle, keeping the same piston and spring.

Run a few shots through a chrono with a 0.177 barrel and a 0.22 barrel fitted. The smaller, lighter 0.177 pellets will fly faster, but the muzzle energy (hence my reference to power, not velocity) will be higher for the 0.22 due to the increased surface area available for the air pressure to act on.

To illustrate the point, have a look here.

Conversion .22 and .177 cal. Theoben have achieved a technological breakthrough with this DlY drop in piston/gas spring conversion. No rifle changes are necessary with this drop in unit. Just remove the old coil spring and piston and fit the new unit. Beware you must order for the correct calibre i.e. if a .177 powered conversion was fitted into a .22 calibre rifle, the rifle would be over the legal limit.


It's the same story with precharged airguns, even if it appears counter intuitive at first - the lower the calibre, the less shots per fill you get for a given tank capacity.
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Unread postAuthor: )DEMON( » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:46 am

So you are saying a spring for a .177cal rifle is stronger than a .22cal rifle spring?
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Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:50 am

sounds like that to me, which i suppose would make sense becasue in the uk air rifles are limited by power not velocity so with a lighter pellet you could have a higher velocity.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:29 am

)DEMON( wrote:So you are saying a spring for a .177cal rifle is stronger than a .22cal rifle spring?


I'm saying that for a given spring, a 0.22 barrel will give more power than a 0.177 barrel.

This means that if 2 rifles of the same model both produce say 12 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, the spring on the 0.177 model has to be more powerful. This means that fitting the 0.177 spring to the 0.22 rifle will give you more power, normally in the order of 10% so nothing spectacular.
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Unread postAuthor: silverdooty » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:42 am

Silverdooty comes to mind!
Ya out there old fella?


growing up i never had a pellet rifle. the parents always said they were too quiet. always said i'd get into some sort of trouble. so it was only loud, noisy, painful firearms in my family. i bought a revelation 766(crossman made) in th eighties for my 7 yr. old grandson. he promptly shot the windows of the school and church out. said they looked like birds.


anyway, if you're gonna strip everything down to re-furbish it-- my personal favorite has been a section of pvc (painted black) long enough for the barrel and action filled with mineral spirits. leave it out in the sun for a couple of days and all the old grease usually is dissolved. stocks have been a little harder, they collect dirt, grease, and various other components. naptha has worked well, minimal lifting of the grain and the basic color has remained. i've steamed a couple of real old nagants to remove most of the cosmoline and then naptha. there are a lot of newer options out there now. harsher chems will raise the grain and then sanding is required and the original finish is toast. as for the blueing i personally like the old patina look firearms have developed over years of use. there are many options out there nowadays. it just depends on what you want.

BTW: i was only born in '41, your plinker might be older.
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Unread postAuthor: beebs111 » Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:05 pm

jack: you are assuming that he took a spring from a .22 that had the same ft/lb of energy as the .177 rifle he put it into. they could have been completly different rifles, but since the work was done in the 60s, it definetly wouldn't hurt to replace the spring again.
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:00 pm

Thanks for everyones responses :D
I have found the make! It's a German made "GECADO" Model 25.
I'm off to google it now- pics later.
Thanks again.
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