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High Tech Pneumatic

This area is for the discussion of BB or airsoft sub machine guns, and or other small arms such as pellets.
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High Tech Pneumatic

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:30 am

I found this data on another forum, detailing the soon to be released "MVT" system developed by Daystate for pre-charged pneumatic air rifles - the amount of gadgets they've developed to go with their revolutionary solenoid fired system is mind boggling, this rifle measures it's own velocity and corrects hammer strength accordingly :shock:

Daystate MVT Technology revealed

In response to many queries triggered by an earlier security leak, I now think it is just as well I reveal more about our new technology developed by Harper Classic guns for Daystate, rather than individuals “second guessing” and causing confusion.

MVT is short for “Mapped Velocity feed-forward Technology. This consists of two distinct technologies:

Power Mapping:

Where the gun is “mapped” (analogous to automotive electronic advance and retard mapping) to produce a constant power output, this is done by varying the knock-open valve hammer effort according to pressure. When the pressure is high, the valve is hit harder by the hammer to overcome pressure induced valve resistance. When the pressure drops the valve is not hit so hard to compensate, giving a flat power characteristic.

To do this an accurate built-in pressure sensor is used to digitally control the hammer effort to open the valve using a mathematical algorithm and a predetermined map of the gun’s performance characteristic. This technique produces impressive results with a flat power plateau over a very wide range of reservoir pressures. It has the advantage of accurately compensating power levels, even when the reservoir pressure changes abruptly (such as part filling, “topping up” the gun).

Velocity Feed Forward:

The velocity is measured for every shot, and the hammer effort is adjusted to give a constant velocity output (something like pre-detonation detection used in engine management systems). A built-in sensor light gate is built into the barrel shroud and the velocity is measured against a preset value and a simple mathematical algorithm is used to vary the hammer effort. This too produces impressive results; however it does have the disadvantage of having to “learn” the set velocity. This is when the hammer effort has to be changed by “trial and error” to attain the desired velocity and then maintain it.

When these two techniques are employed then the best of two worlds are realised. Constant velocity/power is maintained over changing temperatures and when re-filling the gun without “re-learning” the velocity, constant velocity is maintained with different ammunition and it is possible to fine tune velocity to suit individual pellets. It also allows control of the muzzle energy, preventing energies over 12FPE by using different weight pellets or changing the fill pressure of the gun. Velocity feedback alone can be compromised in this way.

Combining these two technologies also allows the accurate setting of lower energy levels. Current pr-production guns can be altered from their factory set maximum energy to velocities as low a 400FPS. Lower velocities have to be “learnt-in” and 785FPS to 400FPS change can be learnt in about 5 shots. Most velocities are learnt-in with 10 shots. Please note that the learning-in process is not needed when operating at the factory set energy level.

To give an idea of the performance of this new technology, a modified Mk3 Sport will produce about 240 shots at +/- 7FPS with un-weighed, us-sorted pellets in 177 calibre.

Gun Display:

The gun has a back-lit 16X2 LCD display. In normal operation it shows:

Reservoir pressure in BAR

Velocity setting on switch on and velocity of last shot in FPS

Shot count

Battery on-load voltage

Magazine shots left

The gun also has a full programming menu including velocity setting where the velocity can be set from 400FPS to the factory limit (for sub-12FPE guns) or higher for FAC guns. The display also shows charging progress when recharging the battery.

The gun will be officially launched at the Tackle and Gun show at Stoneleigh later this month, and there will be opportunity to shoot it at Rivington, also later this month.


What next, on board mp3 player?
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Unread postAuthor: Carlman » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:20 am

i could go for listening to my favorite tunes while shooting up stuff :D

Crazy gadgets...(note to self, add to next spud gun) :D

EDIT: fixed spelling
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Last edited by Carlman on Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:22 am

^_^

See the problems of putting electronics in guns?

Now the programmers are in there no one will understand a bloody thing about how it works :(
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:39 am

Hotwired wrote:Now the programmers are in there no one will understand a bloody thing about how it works :(


Indeed, that's the main disadvantage :( the same thing is happening with pretty much anything from cars to washing machines, with identical results in every case - beautiful performance when everything works, but when the excrement hits the fan (that probably has a microchip in it too :roll: ) you'd better be qualified in IT.

Our fathers' generation had it much easier when it came to fixing things around the house :cry:
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Unread postAuthor: Killjoy » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:58 am

Our fathers' generation had it much easier when it came to fixing things around the house


Damn straight. Its such a pain with all the tiny parts in gadgets now days, makes it almost impossible to fix them if something goes wrong. And it kills me how hard it can be to fool around with my car (or almsot any car for that matter), its like they wan't to discurage you from understanding what you use and how to fix it (but then if you knew how to do that they wouldn't make as much money). Oh well nothings perfect...

It's still kinda interesting what they're doing to the air rifles.
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Unread postAuthor: rna_duelers » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:25 am

Some one give me a funnel some tubing and about 15 minutes to drink all my drinks and you will have something to fix all of your problems!I love alcohol,it helps moments pass.

Have you noticed our guns are starting to become wiht computer chips and stuff,well mroe "Advanced" so we soon are going to be like how i fix this junk and we won't know.

And in all probability,yes I have been.
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Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:27 am

sounds like pretty useless stuff to me, why would you need an onbord chrony and computor and i'm guessing it will be pretty pricy and you will also have the hassle of recharging/replacing the batteries :D
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:34 am

sounds like pretty useless stuff to me, why would you need an onbord chrony and computor and i'm guessing it will be pretty pricy and you will also have the hassle of recharging/replacing the batteries


The advantage in consistency would be tremendous - in a normal pneumatic rifle with a fixed hammer strength, as you begin shooting power will tend to go up until it reaches the ideal pressure, then it will start reducing as the tank pressure reduces further.

With this system, the gun will be able to alter the hammer strength (because it's powered by a solenoid) based on the tank pressure to give you the same velocity every time, something which will make the rifle much, much easier to shoot accurately. Also, you have the advantage of being able to set it to a specific velocity or muzzle energy to deal with specific situations, such as lower power for hunting vermin in enclosed spaces, and higher power for long range shooting.

Charging is a hassle, I already do this with my Mk.3, but the battery's good for 5,000 shots or so, that's ten tins of pellets, so I don't charge it more than once a month.
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Unread postAuthor: grumpy » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:34 am

now all we need are DNA tracking projectiles.
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Unread postAuthor: SPG » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:48 am

And then one day the computers take over and the solenoid goes off on its own when the gun's pointing at you.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:54 am

SPG wrote:And then one day the computers take over and the solenoid goes off on its own when the gun's pointing at you.


Unfortunately, it's already started, involving something with a little more bite than your average air rifle :?
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Unread postAuthor: WOW!! » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:35 pm

Its just like trucks now a days, everything is computer controlled and unless you have a degree in computer engineering you cant work on them. That is why I will never buy a new vechile.

As for spud guns they are going the same way, grated that not everyone will have a CPU on theres but there will be people out there that will, and then they get "food poisoning" and the ATF covers it all up.



Had a little to much sugar this morning
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Unread postAuthor: Carlman » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:41 pm

yes 'sugar' ...
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:39 pm

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:
SPG wrote:And then one day the computers take over and the solenoid goes off on its own when the gun's pointing at you.


Unfortunately, it's already started, involving something with a little more bite than your average air rifle :?


That kind of thing really sucks.

Death through crap design, mechanical or code is a worthless way to end.

"Ah yes St. Peter, I died because a programmer took a tea break halfway through coding the software for my autocannon and forgot to write in the fail safes in case of battle damage to the system"
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Unread postAuthor: mopherman » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:11 pm

Hotwired wrote:
jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:
SPG wrote:And then one day the computers take over and the solenoid goes off on its own when the gun's pointing at you.


Unfortunately, it's already started, involving something with a little more bite than your average air rifle :?


That kind of thing really sucks.

Death through crap design, mechanical or code is a worthless way to end.

"Ah yes St. Peter, I died because a programmer took a tea break halfway through coding the software for my autocannon and forgot to write in the fail safes in case of battle damage to the system"

At least that way you don't have to explain any STDs or death by booze to good ole' st. Pete.
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