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My Next Gun ( Inspired by the Airforce Condor )

This area is for the discussion of BB or airsoft sub machine guns, and or other small arms such as pellets.
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My Next Gun ( Inspired by the Airforce Condor )

Unread postAuthor: ghostman01 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:45 am

I thought it over and over again, and after getting hit by a ricocheting marble in the mouth, I've decided to move onto smaller caliber weapons like my airsoft guns and what not. But about a month ago i came across this bloody brilliant rifle - the Airforce Condor. It s a inline PCP bb gun and its the most powerful pcp made so far, in the .22 caliber it can reach velocitys of up to 1300fps. Its because of the inline design of the valve and tank that makes it this way. So im going to try and replicate this system and make my self a similar kind of air rifle. I've already got myself a tank and im currently making my self a high pressure valve out of brass fittings and aluminium tube. Im basing my valve of this one Image
this is the air gun i would like to replicate ( there was some one else that was doing the same ?? )

Image

isn't it pretty !.....
:lol:
I dont know where im going to get a .22 barrel from, maybe theres copper or brass tubing to same size, but then i would only get smooth bore, unless i rifle it.... :roll:
Heres how the breech works on it

Image

I intend on getting access to my grandads metal lathe or even moving it round to my place for the time being. so machining shouldnt be a problem.
Any way tell me what you think and tips or what not.

EDIT : Oh and my tank is and old dry powder fire extinguisher tank, and one know what pressure thats rated for please ?..... Im probably only going to be running this thing at 300-500 psi if my tank allows it, i think 3000psi is a bit much for me ( 15 )

Barrel size: 9.53 x 2.03 SMT ( Seamless Mechanical Tube ) this is for a .22lr Same as a .22 pellet ( hopefully ) im gonna have to find some one this stuff.




Heres a couple of pics of my high pressure hammer valve. I based it on the valve on instructables and the original one from the airforce air guns. Its made from Brass, and aluminum tube, O-ring and a spring from quick connect airfitting. by rights this should hold a lot of pressure, maybe around 500psi......
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Attachments
SMDC0100.JPG
my gun design, well same as condor...... just i drew it .
DSC02219.JPG
valve closed, it will screw into air source on the right which is 3/8" male
DSC02220.JPG
valve open
Last edited by ghostman01 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:19 am

A hammer valve isn't going to give you as much power as a small piston valve does - don't forget that in pneumatic devices, the pressure is directly proportional to the power - double the pressure and you'll be doubling the power. This means that you've only got 1/10th of the Condor's power potential at your disposal, so if you're using the same design of valve, you might be disappointed.

I would recommend a hammer valve if you want a rifle that will give you multiple shots per tank fill, but for single shot power a small piston valve is the way to go.

As to the fire extinguisher pressure rating, it's untlikely to be rated beyond 250 psi or so.
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Unread postAuthor: ghostman01 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:30 am

Thanks Jack, My valve has a little bit more airflow than the condors, judging by the diagram Image

It looks like this one has less flow, but that is compensated by the extremely high pressure that it uses, so ive had to increase my flow on my valve to compensate for the lower pressures. i use a piece of 4mm id aluminium as my valve shaft as compared to the condors which i think is smaller. I think this is going to be more of an upgrade from the first hammer valve gun i made from Ants design, just a bit more powerful. I think once i make my valve im going to have to find a high pressure tank. with the right screw thread in it, some thing like a 1/2" or some thing.
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Unread postAuthor: Thursto » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:27 am

Hey, those first few pictures look exactly like this design...

http://www.instructables.com/id/Airgun- ... ase-Valve/

thought that might help. or is that where you got the design from ? i mean other then the condor rifle.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:02 am

lower pressure means you can afford to have a wider valve and better porting, but I doubt it will compensate equally.

With 400 psi in my 6mm burst disk launcher, a medium weight 0.22 pellet would do just over 700 feet per second, which is powerful but well below the power levels that the Condor is capable of.

As I said though, power isn't everything, it depends what you want to achieve with the design.
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Unread postAuthor: ghostman01 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:24 am

Yes, thursto it is the same, nice spotting

JSR thats quite a bit of power your getting outta that little thing ! I would like to hope mine can at least get 500fps if not more ! I would like to use it to hunt pesky little things....... mine basically depends on the springs, flow, and pressure so i cant exactely ask you the roundabout velocity i would be getting unfortunately !
thanks
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:54 am

I would recommend a small piston valve, as it's the ideal compromise between the efficiency of a burst disk and the convenience of a hammer valve.

500 fps for 1 gram 0.22 pellets is round about what I was getting for my short (12 inches) barrelled mini-piston at 300-400 psi. Of course you don't get a quick follow-up shot as every shot dumps your chamber, but after all, if you're good, you only need one shot ;)
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Unread postAuthor: Matheusilla » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:25 am

CO2 fire extinguishers are one of my favorite air tanks. The valve on top is threaded into the tank with NPT (I have several 20lb siphon bottles and they use 1"NPT). I have a small aluminum dry powder extinguisher tank that has a maximum working pressure of 300psi, I've also seen dry powder tanks that are good for 500psi. The ratings are written on the tank. The CO2 tanks I have are good for in excess of 1000psi as the CO2 is usually at 830-900psi. Another thing about fire extinguishers is that they come with their own "hammer valve" but the flow is usually on the restricted side.
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Unread postAuthor: Tom » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:44 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:I would recommend a small piston valve, as it's the ideal compromise between the efficiency of a burst disk and the convenience of a hammer valve.

500 fps for 1 gram 0.22 pellets is round about what I was getting for my short (12 inches) barrelled mini-piston at 300-400 psi. Of course you don't get a quick follow-up shot as every shot dumps your chamber, but after all, if you're good, you only need one shot ;)


You can follow JSR's plan and place a valve between the chamber and the piston valve. Then you open the when when you shot and your gun is ready for fire without pumping thousand times :D . I think this will be my new summer project.
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Unread postAuthor: ghostman01 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:24 am

hmmm, i wonder if i can just buy a real condor lol, should be able to get them in australia, we dont have any restrictions on power as long as you've got a licence.
I think ill go by how much flow my valve gives me, and whether or not i can get .22 barrel. How well do skirted pellets fly coming outta a smooth bore barrel ?
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:55 am

Do you have a crosman distributor? They can get you a .22 cal barrel up to 24". (subtract about 1.5" by the time you re-crown, cut off the transfer port and re-do the cone)

They are pretty inexpensive for what you get (a rifled 22.5" steel barrel), ABairguns has them for 11.00 US.

Or if you want REAL precision,

http://www.lothar-walther.de/html/262.php

Skirted pellets will work "ok" out of a smooth bore, like foster slugs in a shotgun.
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Unread postAuthor: ghostman01 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:23 am

cool thanks, yeah i dont think theres a crossman distributer round here, but internet ! on my tank it has writen for pressures

normal operating pressure : 1034 Kpa
high pressure testing : 2 Mpa

can some one translate pleaes ?
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:31 am

1 psi = 6.895 kpa

1034 kpa = 149.96psi

2 mpa = 2000 kpa or 290.07 psi
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Unread postAuthor: ghostman01 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:42 am

thanks, I asked my Dad,( well he found me testing with it ) if i could have the tank and he said no so i guess that little tanks outta the question. Oh well it was a low rated one any way ! plus it was made in 1978. lol so what should i use for a tank ? some thick galv pipe ? i've got some of that !
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Unread postAuthor: Antonio » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:29 am

Just one question> Which valve has more wear a piston or a hammer valve? With my piston valves the front rubber pad used to wear out really fast. When I build guns I also looking how long you can use it without repaire. Atm I am working on this automatic stacked tube design and I am noticeing that after a few hundred shots the copper and aluminium parts start deforming. This is my biggest challenge yet.
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