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sneak peek at a new blowback automatic airgun

This area is for the discussion of BB or airsoft sub machine guns, and or other small arms such as pellets.
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:01 am

@ Ant,

The crosman 357 uses a hammer valve very similar to that used on the drozd bb gun (inline flow).

http://www.airlab.su/Pages/Library/Sche ... an-357.gif
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Unread postAuthor: Pyro Ninja » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:51 am

I really like the looks of the gun (not so much the bipod though)
If only Australia would stop being a "tight arse" :(
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:44 am

tgwms wrote:locked breech? you are thinking in conventional bolt/breech design- closed, locked, sealed... are all relative to the fundamental design type of the system and are highly subjective.

were you to define 'locked' breech as a system when pressurized would resists said pressures mechanically until exceeding the yield strength of the materials used... then yes, the GSMG uses a locked breech.


By "locked breech" I meant some form of mechanical lock (such as the lugs on a typical bolt action rifle action) which would clearly be a dramatic complication on something running off HPA.

Wait, are you suggesting this be used for hunting?


In the UK 12 ft/lbs airguns (that's around 600 fps for a typical 0.22 pellet) are used for hunting small game up to rabbit size out to 50 yards or so, there's no reason why an automatic shouldn't be viable as a hunting tool, particularly if the recoil isn't too much to throw you off target. My FX Monsoon vibrates enough to disturb your aim dumping a mag on semi-auto, but that's doing over 900 fps.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:20 am

judgment_arms wrote:Wait, are you suggesting this be used for hunting?

Nothing wrong with that.
As JSR says, 600 fps in .22" is about 12 ft/lbs.

I've used my TX, which is running somewhere about 11 ft-lbs, on rats and squirrels - ok, that's .177", but it's enough energy.

If someone wants to take that out and hunt anything up to rabbit size with it, I can't see any problems.

@JSR: I'd be less worried by the pellet recoil, which even at 900 fps in .22 will be pretty significant - based on the published figures for the FX, the free recoil energy in .22 is under 0.02J, which... really isn't very much.

I'd suspect that the action itself, or perhaps your own movement, is more likely to be the source of any "vibration"
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Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
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Unread postAuthor: VH_man » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:30 am

i just watched the video......

its GREAT. i want one. i might even save up to get one. only one problem exists, however:

is there any way to lower the ROF on full auto a bit? its a little fast

EDIT: i jsut realized...... it looks amazingly like a Styer TMP.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:38 am

Tinkering with ROF on blowbacks is a bit fiddly.

Incidentally it does look over 600rpm if you look at say 0.48 on the video clip.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:10 am

Ragnarok wrote:I'd suspect that the action itself, or perhaps your own movement, is more likely to be the source of any "vibration"


That's what I was referring to, it's the rocking of the mechanism back and forth that would tend to spoil your aim, though most PCPs I've fired with high power levels do exhibit significant muzzle rise on firing. I had the opportunity to fire an 80 ft/lb AirRanger a few months ago, sounds like a bloody shotgun and you're left facing the clouds :)
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Unread postAuthor: Sticky_Tape » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:44 am

Children under 10 years of age do not opperate that gun for abvious reason BOOM ahhhhhhhh klunk.
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You can tell how awesome a cannon is by the pressure used.
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Unread postAuthor: THUNDERLORD » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:00 am

Gippeto wrote:@ Ant,

The crosman 357 uses a hammer valve very similar to that used on the drozd bb gun (inline flow).

http://www.airlab.su/Pages/Library/Sche ... an-357.gif


I had the 6" barrel version years ago.
I used to put a rubber band around the hammer for a harder hammer strike on the valve, making it more powerful.
If you look at the diagram in the link, The barrel is clipped in at the top/back of the plastic barrel shroud(shell).
So I unclipped it, slid the barrel out and installed a 12" brass smoothbore(hobby shop tubing).
If I remember correctly, I rolled electrical tape around the tubing until it fit a McDonald's straw, one roll in front of straw, one in back (superglued tape inside 6"straw).
Then I slid it in after bending a small forcing cone. It worked.
(later I got a .22 co2 revolver though) That diagram brought back memories Gippeto! 8)
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:27 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:
Wait, are you suggesting this be used for hunting?


In the UK 12 ft/lbs airguns (that's around 600 fps for a typical 0.22 pellet) are used for hunting small game up to rabbit size out to 50 yards or so, there's no reason why an automatic shouldn't be viable as a hunting tool, particularly if the recoil isn't too much to throw you off target. My FX Monsoon vibrates enough to disturb your aim dumping a mag on semi-auto, but that's doing over 900 fps.

Ragnarok wrote:
judgment_arms wrote:Wait, are you suggesting this be used for hunting?

Nothing wrong with that.
As JSR says, 600 fps in .22" is about 12 ft/lbs.

I've used my TX, which is running somewhere about 11 ft-lbs, on rats and squirrels - ok, that's .177", but it's enough energy.

If someone wants to take that out and hunt anything up to rabbit size with it, I can't see any problems.


Oh, I have no doubt that it’ll take game, it’s just not exactly sportsman like to use a danged SMG to take rabbit! :x :roll:


starman wrote:I have always thought BTTF III was a fairly good movie...not quite up to BTTF I standards, but a whole lot better than the very forgettable BTTF II.

I don’t know, I mean BTTF I was excellent, but can you name any other movie that’s a combination of Sci-fi and western? :lol:



THUNDERLORD, I would ask why you replaced the barrel, but I have this fealing the reason is “because I can”… :D
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:33 am

judgment_arms wrote:Oh, I have no doubt that it’ll take game, it’s just not exactly sportsman like to use a danged SMG to take rabbit! :x :roll:


You're still going to have to get within 35 yards or so to make a good shot, so it still involves some stalking - and in my opinion, leaving a very instantly dead rabbit on the field looking like swiss cheese is much more sportsmanlike than wounding it with a badly placed single shot that allows it to limp away and die slowly over the following days or weeks.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:39 am

I believe the point about being a sportsman about hunting is that you use a single shot and skill to kill as opposed to using an overkill method and little skill.

Face it, would you like to be seen sneaking up on a rabbit with a machine gun?

Yeah maybe for a joke but for common use you'd be a laughing stock.
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:46 am

Hotwired wrote:I believe the point about being a sportsman about hunting is that you use a single shot and skill to kill as opposed to using an overkill method and little skill.

Face it, would you like to be seen sneaking up on a rabbit with a machine gun?

Yeah maybe for a joke but for common use you'd be a laughing stock.


Indeed.
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Unread postAuthor: THUNDERLORD » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:48 am

judgment_arms wrote:...Oh, I have no doubt that it’ll take game, it’s just not exactly sportsman like to use a danged SMG to take rabbit! :x :roll:


Wouldn't be very sportsman to use some kind of tracer on 'em either? Sure would look cool though!
JSR beat me to other reason.

Seriously, I have a little rabbit that visits my front yard.
And since I've no need to eat rabbit, LOL I'd prefer to use it on the person who shot it with a conventional airgun (If they were in my yard).
They might get one shot at me I'd get like 30 at them!!!

judgment_arms wrote:THUNDERLORD, I would ask why you replaced the barrel, but I have this fealing the reason is “because I can”… :D


Pretty much. But also with the harder hammer strike the longer barrel gives the co2 more space to vaporize to gas/push the pellet giving more velocity. I wanted a little more power out of it. I still could change the barrel to the short factory one.

Now when I did something with a red plastic cap gun cap involving the muzzle end (against rules to discuss) Now that was because I could. 8)

EDIT: Come to think of it, I used to hunt deer with a chinese AK-47 (semi-auto) 5-shot mag for legality, But I had a loaded 40 rounder in my pocket too. Not a bad deer rifle (in Thick woods).
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Last edited by THUNDERLORD on Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:50 am

This would certainly be overkill :shock: and no, I wouldn't face a rabbit with a 50 calibre machine gun.

However, it is considered sporting to take rabbits with a 12 gauge shotgun, that has more than ten times the power of a 10 round burst from a 12 ft/lbs automatic, so it's not really "overkill" in this case.

That's my opinion at least, if not this device would certainly be useful for pest control, particularly clearing vermin from tight spaces.
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