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Co2 and Clouds.

This area is for the discussion of BB or airsoft sub machine guns, and or other small arms such as pellets.
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Co2 and Clouds.

Unread postAuthor: timebmb757 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:55 pm

Im looking to make a portable cloud, using regulated Co2, with the Kobalt Co2 reg system. It would be the typical 1.5 inch (Pressure rated) PVC pipe with NSF-Pw fittings and a blowgun as a trigger, using 6mm airsoft BBs as ammo.

Anyone see any MAJOR problems with this setup? This will be my first time dealing with Co2, so pointers would be helpful. I am used to working with an air compresser :P

Also: Is the difference in gas efficency bettween a cloud and a vortex a major one? If so, could someone with expiriance tell me the difference in regards to how many rounds could be fired per 20-24oz with both systems?
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Re: Co2 and Clouds.

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:13 pm

timebmb757 wrote:Also: Is the difference in gas efficency bettween a cloud and a vortex a major one?

Yes, the vortex is far more efficent, but the exact number of rounds fired is entirely dependent on the exact design of the BBMG, so I can't put any exact figures on it, but for ball park figures.... I believe that 24 oz of CO2 will do you about 8,000 to 10,000 rounds in a decent vortex BBMG, and about 3000 to 4000 in a cloud.

A cloud usually only achieves about half the rate of fire - and as is the case with these things, a low ROF means more gas used per unit time (nothing in the barrel equates to lost gas). So you're using gas faster, and getting only about half as many BBs per unit time - as such, clouds are not popular for CO2 use.
In fact, in the great scheme of things, clouds aren't hugely popular at all these days. They see odd use, but if someone wants to do a BBMG "right", they do it the vortex way.

However, like I said, these figures are just ballparks, but I would guess they were in the right sort of range, although I can't be confident that it will hold for any particular design.
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Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
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Unread postAuthor: rp181 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:17 pm

Lol, i actually thought you mean making a cloud (like in the sky) until i read Rag's post...

Ide say try both ways, who knows, maybe youle invent something that can make you a millionaire :D
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Unread postAuthor: ISA_Yoshi » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:52 pm

yeah, go with a vortex. more gas efficient, higher ROF. In fact, an inline with a plunger would be even better due to the constant feed directly into the vortex

Those 9 and 20oz CO2 bottles get expensive after a while. I went through two in just a few hours of CQB play.
The Kobalt CO2 system is great though. I use it personally and love
it. Good choice.

With regard to gas:bb consumption, I go by the standard set by neospud. At 90-100 psi, 5lbs of CO2 will get you through 25-30 Thousand rounds. 20 oz is 1/4 that, so roughly 6-8 thousand rounds per bottle. I use the Rhino 9oz they advertise with the Kobalt system because they're cheap and lightweight. I plan on them being able to go through 3000 rounds. With short bursts at 90 psi, it actually exceeds my expectations.

***Disclaimer. The Kobalt system cannot be used for bursts of more than a couple seconds. The pressure needs to build back up. Hope that doesn't affect your decision. It's still great in my completely unbiased (wink) opinion.

No matter which style you end up going with, I wouldn't go down below 60 psi. The bbs tend to just kind of flop out of the barrel below that pressure and you get an absolutely horrible ROF
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:42 am

ISA_Yoshi wrote:The Kobalt system cannot be used for bursts of more than a couple seconds. The pressure needs to build back up. Hope that doesn't affect your decision.


Add an expansion chamber between the valve and the Kobalt?
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Unread postAuthor: jitup » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:51 am

I used to be big in paintball, and the guys that were more into actual gun performance (me) tapped psi gauges into our systems to monitor our air source (my case 20z CO2 bottles)

Add an expansion chamber between the valve and the Kobalt?


this would improve your performance greatly. I actually tried building several expansion chambers out of aluminum, but they did not work that well. Surprisingly the cheap $20 ones work just as well as the big money Exp chambers. go to your local paintball store and get the cheapest one they have. It will help you keep a constant pressure longer. Also I would not by the Kolbalt due to its price. Go to your PB store and the will have regulators for less than $20

they are called remote coils and look like this,

you can add a PSI gauge easily if you wish
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Unread postAuthor: cooptroop123 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:20 pm

i would look for a paintball regulator. many have very high flow
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