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Ajax automatic airgun

This area is for the discussion of BB or airsoft sub machine guns, and or other small arms such as pellets.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu May 21, 2009 2:50 pm

Saugi wrote:Anything new about the Ajax Machine Gun or it's plans? :?:


None I'm afraid, I assume the designer took exception to the fact that we were indeed trying to find out how it works. However if you browse the forum I think you'll find that development of launchers with similar performance is proceeding healthily ;)

Also, I hadn't seen the vid before, I want a freakin' belt fed 12 bore! :shock: :D
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:30 am

More progress on this it seems, performance is certainly impressive:

Image

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsY0b_CRWpg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Still no idea what the internals look like though :roll:
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Unread postAuthor: roboman » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:44 am

Yeah, I got the email update, too. It is rather interesting.
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ilovetoblowthingsup wrote: The yellow/orange back fits super snugly, very nice in fact, but the head does not fit.
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Unread postAuthor: ilovefire » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:06 am

i find myself really wanting one of these right about now, DAMN YOU AUSTRALIAN LAWS!
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:32 am

Still no idea what the internals look like though
wait till he starts selling them

anyway... have you noticed that both the first and the second prototype has parts which seem to be used specifically to hide internals ?
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:00 am

POLAND_SPUD wrote:
Still no idea what the internals look like though
wait till he starts selling them

anyway... have you noticed that both the first and the second prototype has parts which seem to be used specifically to hide internals ?


When you want to make money you have to be deceptive.

If he knows anything about the DIY airgun group he'd know we'd be able to guess how it worked if we could see internals.

One reason for the aluminium box section and either resin or polymorph moulding anyway.

Doesn't appear to be machined much, the rails are fixed on, not part of the aluminium.

Pancake mag is unusual, assuming it is a mag.
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Unread postAuthor: ramses » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:54 pm

interesting; at around 0:55, it looks to take a chip out of the penny.


Are the exploding targets against the rules?
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POLAND_SPUD wrote:even if there was no link I'd know it's a bot because of female name :D
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:08 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:anyway... have you noticed that both the first and the second prototype has parts which seem to be used specifically to hide internals ?


Noted, he really is making the effort.

When you want to make money you have to be deceptive.


... and the designer is being very deceptive. If patents have indeed been filed, they're very well hidden. There certainly isn't anything in the name of the "senior engineer" or the company mentioned in the website, and I haven't encountered anything that fits the description. Not that it's an easy task, some of the patents are very ambiguous. I found one describing what was essentially a cloud BBMG that was titled along the lines of "pressurised fluid particle dispenser".

Pancake mag is unusual, assuming it is a mag.


The specifications mention a "pan" magazine.

I'm willing to bet it's probably nothing more than a well made magazine fed "cloud" BBMG with some sort of adjustable breech detent and valve flow that alters velocity and rate of fire respectively.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:19 pm

I'm willing to bet it's probably nothing more than a well made magazine fed "cloud" BBMG with some sort of adjustable breech detent and valve flow that alters velocity and rate of fire respectively
naahh I already concluded that it must be using a solenoid valve and a timing circuit

not sure if it is a 3 way valve + regulator combo or a 2 way valve with adjustable dweel time...
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Unread postAuthor: roboman » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:24 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:
I'm willing to bet it's probably nothing more than a well made magazine fed "cloud" BBMG with some sort of adjustable breech detent and valve flow that alters velocity and rate of fire respectively
naahh I already concluded that it must be using a solenoid valve and a timing circuit

not sure if it is a 3 way valve + regulator combo or a 2 way valve with adjustable dweel time...


I don't think there's any practical way to get 1400 RPM with a solenoid valve.
Can most valves even actuate that fast?
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ilovetoblowthingsup wrote: The yellow/orange back fits super snugly, very nice in fact, but the head does not fit.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:52 pm

Can most valves even actuate that fast
Not all of them but quite a lot of them can...

Most valves have datasheets, which can be found using google... quite a lot of them list opening & closing time
(like this one -> http://www.sirai.com/inglese/pdf/l/L272.pdf)

anyway... you do know that there are solenoid valves in electro-pneumatic pb guns, right?
AFAIK some of them achieve ROF of up to 20-25 RPS so I'd say it is possible...
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Unread postAuthor: roboman » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:03 pm

Yeah, I know they exist. Don't most electro-pneumatic guns function like the Drozd, though? The guy said he didn't like the Drozd because it's too loud.
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ilovetoblowthingsup wrote: The yellow/orange back fits super snugly, very nice in fact, but the head does not fit.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:28 pm

Don't most electro-pneumatic guns function like the Drozd, though?
Nope... AFAIK most of them work more like QEV + DCV + aircylinder combo...

of course instead of a QEV they use some sort of a machined spool valve, which apart from working as the main valve also acts as a loading mech but the principle is the same - the solenoid valve fills and pilots the main valve

if you look closely you'll notice that the two function in exactly the same way...
Image
Image


you'll find more info on PB guns here
http://www.zdspb.com/tech/misc/solenoids.html
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Unread postAuthor: roboman » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:48 pm

Yeah, I've been to that site before.
However, to build something as compact as what this guy has done, you'd almost certainly need to do "special machining" (whatever that means).

The guy's site wrote:To give you a little history on the X177 itself, during my airgun experimentation, I set out to design something that could be replicated without any special tools or special parts.


The latter option you presented is simple, but not very compact.
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ilovetoblowthingsup wrote: The yellow/orange back fits super snugly, very nice in fact, but the head does not fit.
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Unread postAuthor: clemsonguy1125 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:25 pm

When he starts selling plans would it be illegal for someone to buy them then post exactly how it works or build it then take pictures? I really want to learn how that thing works.
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