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Ajax automatic airgun

This area is for the discussion of BB or airsoft sub machine guns, and or other small arms such as pellets.
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Ajax automatic airgun

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:20 am

Anyone know anything about how this works?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEdKtnojr0k[/youtube]

I took a look at some of the “blower-type” BB machine guns. The $250+ “Strafer” is one of these; there were also plans for similar units grouped by operation type (i.e.,vortex, cloud, etc.). They all tend to shoot at a frustratingly non-adjustable rate of roughly 4000+ RPM, which is unfortunately (and obviously) too high for target shooting, etc. Even more unfortunately, the firing speed is somewhat related to the projectile speed in these devices. Thus, if you want a higher projectile speed you wind up with a higher firing rate (which makes things even worse). There is no concept of selective-fire/semi-auto at all; each pull blows about 20 rounds, minimum. But the worst part is that they require a tremendous amount of airflow; basically a connection to shop air is the only practical way to use these things. Connecting them to portable bulk air is also possible, and it's a great way to unload some cash if you're over-rich in the green (and then you'll quickly be back to shop air as you blow through a 20oz CO2 tank in about 30 seconds). Needless to say, that also didn't get close to cutting it for me.



I then looked into the Casleman. This was better, but the information for building the Casleman was really not sufficient, and one basically needed a reasonably well-equipped machine shop (and an equally well-equipped pocketbook) to do it. And that's why so few were ever built; I think nearly all of them by Casleman himself. In addition, you needed to cast your own projectiles for the gun, which was fine in some circumstances, but certainly not fine for high-volume everyday shooting in the yard!



The Drozd was much more in line with what I wanted. Something that I could shoot everyday that was automatic. But, several things quickly dulled the excitement. First, the stock Drozd uses 12g CO2 cartridges. Now, this has way better gas usage than a “blower-gun” but still – at the rate at which you're shooting ammo, you're pouring through cartridges like a river! So, you discover that you can adapt it to use bulk gas... Which then quickly brings us to the second thing I didn't like: You go though the expense of converting to bulk air or CO2 for just a 30 round magazine (and an extra magazine is $45, ouch!). The third depressing thing was when I found out that the Drozd is burst-mode only (mainly due to the CO2 freezing up the gun); so the fully-automatic is only sorta/kinda fully auto, and I also didn't like the stock firing rate selections. Of course, you could fix this problem by modifying the electronics in the gun; but then to take advantage of that you would need the bulk air and a bigger magazine – the latter of which which doesn't exist! Fourth, there's the noise. It's enough when you are shooting full-auto, let alone at the “it-can't-be-any-friggin-louder” level. Almost everyone, everywhere, and on every newsgroup and forum wanted to find a way to legally suppress the Drozd so they could shoot it without problem (not much luck there). Now, I don't mind some reasonable loudness, but the Drozd (like some CO2 pistols) is just too loud for many areas. Add the $300+ it would cost to get the gun and do the mods and then only have a 30 round magazine... well, it was still tempting – but, I thought I could do better if I designed one myself...



So, seeing that I was already working on alternative projectile propulsion systems, I set out to build my own version of an automatic airgun. And, I wound up actually building several. Some were super powerful large-bore autocannon type devices (which led to the powerful CX-Autocannon Series), a few were smaller-bore devices, some were very exotic designs, and another was the X177.



To give you a little history on the X177 itself, during my airgun experimentation, I set out to design something that could be replicated without any special tools or special parts. Something simple and inexpensive, yet effective. It quickly evolved into this lofty “pie-in-the-sky” concept about making and automatic airgun “for the people.” In other words, something that almost anyone could build. Something that the builder could learn from, modify, customize, and experiment with. And as I read through the forums, I realized that almost everyone wanted something like this. But, many people said it simply couldn't be done without special machining. Well, I didn't buy that reasoning, and the X177 became the fruit of that labor.



The X177 design is deceivingly simply, yet astoundingly reliable. My original X177 prototype has now fired well over 30,000 rounds with no sign of degradation. This basic, “low-power” build can fire rounds at over 400FPS and put a BB cleanly through one side of a strong steel soup can from several meters (often though both sides); aluminum cans behave as if they were tissue paper from that range. I can shoot at ranges beyond 20 meters with accuracy, even on low power fills, and can hit a Necco wafer practically every time at 10m. Selective-fire, single shot up to 1200RPM (continuously variable), it sports a range of magazine types, including super high-capacity types (200+ round magazines have been tested), and can fire all these rounds on a single, relatively low-pressure air fill. In fact, it can fire off a 60+ round magazine with a relatively low-pressure fill via a small air tank (one of my personal favorite configurations), every round surpassing 360FPS. And, it only takes a minute or two to both load the magazine and fill the tank! Not bad for something that cost about $40 in parts!


A man after my own heart!

I've emailed the guy in case he's happy to reveal what the mechanism is like.
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Last edited by jackssmirkingrevenge on Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: SEAKING9006 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:01 am

I think our prayers have been answered. Up-gun it to 6mm and you have a gold mine.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:17 am

Actually, it might function like the Drozd with a solenoid operated hammer, I took this screenshot from the beginning of the video that uses what looks like plans and there seems to be an electronic circuit involved. He also mentions the Drozd a lot in the write-up.
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Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:22 am

I'm not too sure he will spill too many beans on the subject as it looks like there will be plans available for purchase...
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Unread postAuthor: mark.f » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:37 pm

Well, I'm guessing it uses Javascript and server-side scripting.

Those who are not complete nerds disregard this post.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:47 pm

ALIHISGREAT wrote:I'm not too sure he will spill too many beans on the subject as it looks like there will be plans available for purchase...


True, but no harm in asking ;) though I think that the mention of an infinitely variable rate of fire is also consistent with a solenoid hammer valve, that's looking like the most probably mechanism to me.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:12 pm

@JSR
or it might be just a 3 way solenoid spool valve... one port is the chamber, one for the barrel and one for the tank... a 1/4" valve would be enough to provide good flow.. with a small chamber volume it wouldn't' be difficult to get multiple shots

the loading mech/bolt is most likely based on the drozd
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Unread postAuthor: Brian the brain » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:01 pm

Supersonic capable?!?!?!

It seems to function just fine, but no better than some other models I've seen.
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Oh my friggin god stop being so awesome, that thing is pure kick ass. Most innovative and creative pneumatic that the files have ever come by!

Can't ask for a better compliment!!
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Unread postAuthor: sputnick » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:10 pm

I have read some more of the website, and he is looking to sell the plans, not just the finished product, (but you already knew that :wink: ) so I doubt you will get anything beyond what kind of mechanism it is.

I personally cannot wait to see those plans for sale! a bb machine gun from NON MACHINED PARTS!!! I am aroused and excited in ways airguns never have done before...

I am actually subscribing to the websites blog so I can get the plans as soon as they are available.

EDIT: I am pretty sure the air tank is a soda bottle, so its a relatively low pressure gun! I have emailed him with this and I wait eagerly for his reply :)
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Unread postAuthor: brogdenlaxmiddie » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:46 pm

sputnick wrote:
I am actually subscribing to the websites blog so I can get the plans as soon as they are available.


You do know, sharing is caring :wink: :lol: But maybe we could get him interested in this forum and he would care to share some intimate details with us :idea: :roll:
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Unread postAuthor: super spuder » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:22 pm

looks like a really cool concept. im doubting the supersonic thing though... even if you could get them out the barrel going super sonic, i think it would be terribly inaccurate :? just my thoughts though... anyone get a response from him?
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Unread postAuthor: Lentamentalisk » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:51 pm

I expect that it has some pressure chamber, and it is "supersonic capable" because you could fill that pressure chamber with helium, but then again, you never know.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:14 am

Spools are the new BFV wrote:or it might be just a 3 way solenoid spool valve... one port is the chamber, one for the barrel and one for the tank... a 1/4" valve would be enough to provide good flow.. with a small chamber volume it wouldn't' be difficult to get multiple shots


It could be, but I think a solenoid hammer would be much easier to improvise.

QEV end poppeffs wrote:It seems to function just fine, but no better than some other models I've seen.


Ah, but if it can be built as easily as the designer claims, it's worth looking into.

I was planning on playing the mindless optimisim card very strongly wrote:I am pretty sure the air tank is a soda bottle, so its a relatively low pressure gun!


He says relatively low pressure, but for example 1,000 psi is relatively low pressure compared to typical air rifles at 3,000 psi, I doubt that's realistically a soda bottle.

No response from the designer yet.
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Unread postAuthor: SPG » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:21 am

I notice they're applying for a patent, anyone know if there's a "patent pending" search, maybe a bit of hunting round might turn something up.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:45 am

SPG wrote:I notice they're applying for a patent


Google patents allows you to select between issued patents and patent applications, I had done a quick search for the Ajax design when I first found the site but it didn't turned up anything relevant, I'll try again in more detail later.
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