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Vortex Cap Question

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Vortex Cap Question

Unread postAuthor: PVC Arsenal 17 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:48 pm

I'm working on my first vortex cap BBMG (thanks to DavidVaini for the awesome alternative to the conventional design) but I have a quick question to ask before I begin drilling the holes.

One end of a vortex cap is closed off, naturally, and my question was whether or not it would be better to put the barrel and input holes directly next to the wall rather than toward the center of the cap with some space between the holes and the wall.

In case my question wasn't worded clearly, I made a quick picture to hopefully explain it better.

Thanks for the help
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Unread postAuthor: clemsonguy1125 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:01 pm

well I put mine directly next to the wall and it works great.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:16 pm

I can't imagine it would make any particular difference.
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Unread postAuthor: PVC Arsenal 17 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:39 pm

Thank you. While I'm at it, I'll pose another question. Provided I used a capable air source, would there be any disadvantage to using two cap vortex's back to back... minus the wall in between them? In other words... a pipe vortex. See attachment for clarification.

It might be possible that having two vortex's take place within the same tube would lead to some sort of negative interaction. In that case, two conventional vortex blocks side by side might be better as they wouldn't affect each other as much.

I'm trying to build a small vortex turret but I wanted to increase it's rate of fire beyond that of most vortex's. My goal is 200rps.

I was also thinking of putting two vortex caps back to back (retaining the wall between them this time) to have two completely independent systems with independent magazines. By firing both at the same time, I could achieve double the rate of fire, but I would still have the option of firing each individually to double the amount firing time at normal RoF.
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pipevortex.PNG
"pipe" vortex with two barrels.
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backtobackcap.PNG
Twin, independent vortex caps.
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Unread postAuthor: Davidvaini » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:57 pm

personally I would go with a twin independent setup. As you know there would not be any negative effects. I personally don't see how a pipe vortex could be advantageous.


and thank you for the complement on my design.
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:00 am

I personally don't see how a pipe vortex could be advantageous.

Twice the airflow cause more spinning around, improving feed rate. Also, the chambers will share pile of ammo.
Just a guess, only a highspeed camera can prove it.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:23 am

Doubling the rate of fire of something that is already ridiculously wasteful of ammunition sounds a bit weird but I guess you have your reasons.

I'm trying to build a small vortex turret but I wanted to increase it's rate of fire beyond that of most vortex's. My goal is 200rps


Turret? Sentry turret? :D

Just a guess, only a highspeed camera can prove it.


I have a clear 6mm barrel, when I find time I want to do some HS experiments to continue jor2daje's good work :)
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:50 am

Doubling the rate of fire of something that is already ridiculously wasteful of ammunition sounds a bit weird but I guess you have your reasons
I have to agree with that... it would be more sensible to lower the ROF and air consumption while increasing power of each bb

is there any reason why you want to increase ROF not lower it ? are you doing it just because you want something challenging ?
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:53 am

POLAND_SPUD wrote:is there any reason why you want to increase ROF not lower it ? are you doing it just because you want something challenging?


If it's for a turret, higher ROF would certainly increase your hit probability on moving targets, that's why most automatic weapons made for anti-aircraft use usually have the highest rates of fire (and usually switch to lower rates to save ammunition when engaging ground targets)
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:19 pm

I am very well aware of that...
but it baffles me.. given the muzzle velocity and rate of fire vortexes it doesn't really make sense for most applications

unless of course he wants to build an AA turret for shooting down RC planes without damaging them
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:24 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:unless of course he wants to build an AA turret for shooting down RC planes


There are more fun waysof doing that ;)

without damaging them


A shop compressor BBMG with a longish barrel and high flow valve (say 1/2" ball valve as opposed to a blowgun) would devastate a low flying RC plane, especially if firing steel BBs.
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Unread postAuthor: Davidvaini » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:34 pm

Having twin vortex would be a sure way to double the ROF, as long as the flow in both is the same. but having the pipe vortex, yes it might get twice the ROF.. but I doubt it. You are using the same reservoir for the BBs and thus the BBs wouldn't be pushed towards both caps equally. If you get 60% of the BBs feeding into one, and 40% into the other, you wont actually end up with twice the ROF..
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:26 pm

I wonder if it would drop performance.

Ammo gets into barrel one, but not in barrel two, free flow through two, less pressure buildup, less power for the shot from barrel one.
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Unread postAuthor: PVC Arsenal 17 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:41 pm

The original goal was just to see if I could hit 200rps. :lol: The reason I called it a "turret" was only because of the configuration I had planned... better suited on top of a tripod than in one's hands.

However I decided it was better not to waste my time (and bb's) so instead I'm going to focus on building a straightforward vortex cap being that I've yet to do so.

Drilling neat holes into a length of pipe is really pissing me off though.
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