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Flow rate needed for a BBMG vortex style

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Flow rate needed for a BBMG vortex style

Unread postAuthor: 30cal man » Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:53 pm

does anyone know what is the rate of flow of a air at 72 psi to get a bbmg to function using a vortex cap or half block or original vortex block i am wanting to know this because i think i have a desgn that will be very sweet and compete with the drozd i am wanting to go with a small valve that has 5/64" id hose will this produce enough flow to work and get good velocity if not i can go with a backup let me know
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Unread postAuthor: Gun Freak » Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:25 pm

Try using periods when you talk. Like this. It makes things easier to understand.
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Unread postAuthor: 30cal man » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:02 pm

Thanks! Great answer to my questions. I'm very glad you waisted your time aswell as mine with your reply that had nothing to do with the questions i asked. As with all forums there is always someone lurking to post a grammar post. This is a place to post things not school, not a job, and for nothing more then fun. Wich translates to i guess i could write in slang then if i wanted. I hope you lost spud bux for your off topic post.
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Unread postAuthor: clemsonguy1125 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:16 pm

Yes maybe posting you needed to use periods was a little much but using slang is bad, it can be hard to understand and clutters up the forums with topics that people took so little time and effort to write they don't care about getting a proper answer.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:41 pm

does anyone know what is the rate of flow of a air at 72 psi

You want to know the flow of a single air particle at 72PSI?

get a bbmg to function using a vortex cap or half block or original vortex block

O.K.

i am wanting to know this because i think i have a desgn that will be very sweet and compete with the drozd

That's cool.

i am wanting to go with a small valve that has 5/64" id hose

Nice.

will this produce enough flow to work and get good velocity

Well the velocity will depend on many things such as the flow of the valve, opening speed of the valve (from closed to fully open), the diameter and length of the barrel, the design of the vortex block and BB "chamber" and also pressure for example.

How 'bout you start from scratch and write a proper post so we can understand what questions you're asking and what information you are giving us. Sure, we're not at school, but it still helps if we can understand you otherwise you wont get help.
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Unread postAuthor: Lockednloaded » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:48 pm

to be fair to him, you both scolded him about his grammar with no help in addition. MrCrowley took a great approach to it by first saying something relevant to the topic. He's new so cut him a little slack, he seems to have done some research.

now, on topic so that i'm not hippocratic...
If you want efficiency that can be compatible with drozd gun system, a vortex is not the way to go. They are horribly inefficient, and the consume air at an insane rate. the drozd guns how ever have an efficient hammer system enabling them to use 12g co2 capsules effectively.
There's just my 2 cents, but goo luck with the build, sound very cool.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:32 am

I guess that the max flow is roughly equal to max flow through 6mm barrel at 72psi. Ask someone more intelligent than me to calculate this stuff, but I can tell you that

a small valve that has 5/64" id hose
probably won't give you the most optimal performance. AFAIK most blowguns, which are normally used as valves in BBMGs, have much higher flow
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Unread postAuthor: 30cal man » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:03 pm

Ok I will try an explain a little more what i am goaling for

1.) I want to know if a valve with 2mm out puts and imputs will work using a vortex block of some type
A.) the vortex design i want to use is the best of the types however i want a sping force feed mag. I beleive a vortex cap will work great but am wanting opinions

2.) the valve is rated to 72 psi not that high i can change the valve to a 120psi but the inputs and outputs drop to 10/32 the valve will open fully in 0.05ms

3.) the idea here is that i will pulse the valve for a burst effect technically could be considerd a shot gun with .50 second bursts i should have quite a few shotgun style blasts out of a low amount of air

4.) the idea will develop into a full auto shotgun essentliy i know all the parts i can get however it is a decent investment which is why i am trying to investigate wiether or not it will be enough air to send bbs (steel .177 preferably or better yet lead) down range

5.) the chamber and barrel will be as little as possible without effecting range and accuracy i would like a 500 - 1000rd capacity and the barrel lenth of no longer then 14" i will be buying tubing of .173 inches or .180

well i hope this helped anyone to help me if its worth investing in
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:17 pm

the valve is rated to 72 psi not that high i can change the valve to a 120psi but the inputs and outputs drop to 10/32 the valve will open fully in 0.05ms

What is the valve made from? It probably can take over 120PSI safely.
I'm not much of a BBMG guy, but I'll help with what I can.

What are your other options for a valve? Like is there a 1/4" version of this valve. Even if the rating is lower, you probably can take it far higher. Blowguns are rated for 900PSI, people use them at over 500PSI.
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Unread postAuthor: 30cal man » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:45 pm

the reason for the valve size is it runs on 5vdc and that is what i need for the project to work the valve is made from plastic , brass, delrin, or teflon
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:46 pm

I can tell you already that 2mm porting and 72 psi for 0.177" BBs will probably result in disappointing performance, especially if the valve is being pulsed briefly.

You can see the performance I was getting at 110 psi with a blowgun feed and relatvely small BB chamber here.

It's worth looking at Jimmy's experimentation with a solenoid valved BBMG here.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:56 am

is 5dcv some sort of official requirement or do you think it's better than having to use 24dcv ?

you know if all you want to use is 75 - 150 psi then you might as well use an indirect acting 1/4" solenoid valve (or 3/8" version if you really want to get even more flow)
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Unread postAuthor: 30cal man » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:13 pm

the reason i want to use a 5vlt solenoid is because for the rate of fire and modes i want to use a paintball gun board to control the valve which are rated at 5vdc. unless there is some way to wire in the valve and make the board up its voltage without frying to power the solenoid. i guess i could just make the valve exhaust a small piston valve with the volume of 1.5 to 2x the barrel which would be the main valve firing for the vortex block idk ?????
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:21 pm

30cal man wrote:I guess i could just make the valve exhaust a small piston valve with the volume of 1.5 to 2x the barrel which would be the main valve firing for the vortex block


Sounds like a great idea :)
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:51 pm

yep... especially if you already have a PB 3 way valve... sure you'd get short bursts as opposed to continuous fire (unless you use a modded QEV or a piston vlave that can be feed form the chamber side)....

JSR has build a vortex gun that fired in short bursts and it seems he was rather satisfied with the results
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