Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 83 users online :: 5 registered, 0 hidden and 78 guests


Most users ever online was 218 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

Another airsoft converssion...

This area is for the discussion of BB or airsoft sub machine guns, and or other small arms such as pellets.
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

Another airsoft converssion...

Unread postAuthor: bobgengeskahn » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:12 am

Hello all. So I have been thinking about an airsoft conversion for longer thank I care to say. Now, if I just wanted to make it shoot there are tons of resources here and I have done enough playing around that I could make that happen. However, there is one thing I want to add that I am not sure how to do effectively; add an almost realistic recoil mechanism (liken to an AR for those of you that have shot real steel).

There is not that much recoil in an AR, but I want to create enough kick so that the shooter can feel it and that it would throw off follow up shots enough that you actually have to know what youre doing when shooting it.

This is what I am working with:
Image

I like this platform because there is a ton of space inside of it as compared to an AR or something, but due to the size and weight, I dont think that a standard blow back/blow open bolt will create enough of a kick. I don't have an aversion to running an outside line, but would like maybe the option of running internal since there is a ton of stock space, but if I cant its no big deal.

The design concept I am leaning toward is an over under style with a steel piston in the lower chamber that is vented with either 1. a solenoid that would actuate the nozzle to load the BB or 2. a solenoid operated poppet valve that is the nozzle. The problem I am seeing is charging time between shots. In practicality, an airsoft sniper usually needs to get off 2-3 shoots in succession, so recharge is an issue.

So any links anyone could provide where people have done some kind of recoil simulation would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Edit:
To give more of an idea of the internal space here is another project I was working on before tooling became an issue:
Image

Image

I could run a block all the way back to the back of the top rail and down about 2.5 - 3" into the lower receiver, so like I said, there is a ton of space. That bar is 1x1.5 aluminium stock. The marked parts are where I was going to have to narrow it down to fit it into the the top of the receiver.
  • 0


bobgengeskahn
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:40 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: sharpshooter11000 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:40 am

There's a machinists thread where you could get that part machined by someone, since tolling was a issue.

In the Marui recoil series there is a spring with a weight at the end which moves back and forth. You could have a pneumatic ram with a weight at the end which pushes back when you fire, maybe?
  • 0

Attachments
MechBoxRecoil.jpg
here's a pic of the Marui system
User avatar
sharpshooter11000
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:34 pm
Location: UK
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Reputation: 2

Unread postAuthor: bobgengeskahn » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:24 pm

I have seen that system and was interested in it until I fired one... its kinda wimpy, not to mention its just making an existing mechanical system that breaks more complicated. :shock:

Ill have to see if I can get a sketch up when I get home tonight or some time tomorrow.
  • 0


bobgengeskahn
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:40 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: sharpshooter11000 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:27 pm

Yeah, kinda wimpy, almost comparable to a .22 rifle. Although with a pneumatic system that could be improved.
  • 0

My cannons | My QEV cannon |
User avatar
sharpshooter11000
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:34 pm
Location: UK
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Reputation: 2

Unread postAuthor: bobgengeskahn » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:46 pm

In the time being I think I found an animation that is similar to what I am thinking:
http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animati ... es5fps.gif

The main difference would be in the bolt design. I think I would have the vent for the recoil device drive the nozzle forward to load BBs.
  • 0


bobgengeskahn
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:40 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: sharpshooter11000 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:08 pm

You want to use a paintball system in an airsoft gun? How could you!? :lol:

That system won't give much recoil, generally blow-forward bolts are made out of a relatively light material. It would have about as much recoil as a normal paintball gun, about the same as a Marui recoil series gun.
  • 0

My cannons | My QEV cannon |
User avatar
sharpshooter11000
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:34 pm
Location: UK
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Reputation: 2

Unread postAuthor: bobgengeskahn » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:24 pm

Well, the top bolt would be completely redesigned. Off the top of my head I'm thinking alumnium sealed with a spring loaded nozzle, with the rear section rigged like a QDV. Since airsft is only 6mm, the nozzle assembly would probably be more than 10-12mm D.

The recoil however would be from, what is in the picture as the green piston on the bottom. Probably closer to 19-20mm D, steel with a lot more play room than that probably about 1-1.5cm of movement to the rear and at least 2-3cm long.

Even operating at a low pressure that thing could get moving pretty quickly to the back with some good mass... hopefully creating something noticable. Since it would be unbalanced (or maybe biased with a spring), once the vent is close off, the lower piston would return to the forward position and the nozzle assembly would move back to the rear via a spring....
  • 0


bobgengeskahn
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:40 am
Reputation: 0

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: warhead052 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:15 pm

Here's a stupid idea, but it may work. Put a pneumatic actuator in the stock of the gun, and add a rubber end to it like a door stopper and then have it smash into your shoulder at adjustable pressure to simulate different types of recoil on semi auto.
  • 0


warhead052
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:41 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: bobgengeskahn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:27 am

I had thought of something like that, but I think it would get a little gas consuming. Unlike a lot of airsofters I wouldn't mind carrying a tank externally, but within reason lol.
  • 0


bobgengeskahn
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:40 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: warhead052 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:32 am

HPA set up, with a Palmer pursuit regulator. And if you build it into a separate butt stock, then you will be able to change them out depending on if you want recoil or not.
  • 0


warhead052
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:41 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: bobgengeskahn » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:30 pm

I have a Palmer regulator that I plan to use, but unfortunately the stock is built into the lower receiver.
  • 0


bobgengeskahn
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:40 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: warhead052 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:55 pm

Ah that sucks. Then what about a rotary actuator with a weight on the end?
  • 0


warhead052
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:41 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: beastmode986 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:03 pm

Depending on how much space unhave u can probably hook up a hydraulic weight system hooked up o a 13 ci 3000 psi pb tank and hook up a trigger so when fired the weigh flys back with heavy force causing kick
  • 0


beastmode986
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:13 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Lockednloaded » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:39 pm

You should make your chamber an air cylinder with a heavy weight and a strong spring. That way, when you fire, all the air is exhausted very quickly and the spring forces the heavy weight backwards, causing "kick"
  • 0

I love lamp
User avatar
Lockednloaded
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1558
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:38 pm
Location: Texas, USA
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: bobgengeskahn » Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:06 pm

Lockednloaded wrote:You should make your chamber an air cylinder with a heavy weight and a strong spring. That way, when you fire, all the air is exhausted very quickly and the spring forces the heavy weight backwards, causing "kick"


This was an original thought, as well as balancing with an air spring and a sealed piston and a schrader valve on the 'spring' side of the air spring to adjust pressure (very similar to how air rifles work). I just figured it would be too complicated/big having a schrader sticking out in the middle of the rig, not to mention the fine tuning involved.
  • 0


bobgengeskahn
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:40 am
Reputation: 0

Return to BB/Airsoft/Pellet Gun Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'