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Crosman 1322

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Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:01 am

My first airgun purchase on the North American continent :D which arrived through the mail! Without any licensing or registration requirements! :shock: I know, I know, it's how life has always been here, but this is completely new to me!

[freedom intensifies]

Of course it cannot be left stock, the nasty plastic breech and muzzle block have to go but first, some revamping of the internals along these lines:

Image

Removing the dead space in order to improve the efficiency of the pump, and a Brian the brain style balanced hammer valve to reduce valve stem resistance.

I will document the progress in this thread.
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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: mark.f » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:02 am

Nice taste for your first North American airgun purchase. I can remember you looking down your nose at my wanting to buy a Discovery some years back. :P

Sounds like some interesting modifications (particularly the BtB style hammer valve). Go for it.
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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: Talk » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:47 am

Like mark.f said ,it sounds interesting to me too but I wish I had more knowledge about those complicated diagrams above :|
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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:36 pm

mark.f wrote:Nice taste for your first North American airgun purchase. I can remember you looking down your nose at my wanting to buy a Discovery some years back. :P


That was when I has an FX Monsoon and Daystate Mk.3 in my collection, each of which cost more than ten Crosmans ;) sold them all before I came here so I'm starting from scratch.

it sounds interesting to me too but I wish I had more knowledge about those complicated diagrams above


It really is as simple as it gets in terms of hammer valves. Maybe this animation will help, the principle is exactly the same:

http://www.arld1.com/images/swfs/mechan ... umatic.swf

Took it apart this morning, here's the valve and pump piston:

1322valvepumphead.jpg


There is a lot more work to be done than I originally thought.

The most disappointing thing I found was the transfer port which is a mere 3.4mm in diameter. For a 5.5mm barrel, that represents only 38% of the cross sectional area, a significant performance limiter. My original idea was to make any modifications reversible but I might have to change my tack.

1322transferport.jpg


Looking at the pump head, it seems to mate exactly with the valve, so there is much less dead space than I imagined.

1322pumphead.jpg


Took some dimensions and put it back together for now, needs some thought :)
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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: PeteS » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:24 pm

I am looking forward to following your progress. Please do keep us posted. I expect to be receiving a 1322 from my wife for Christmas, so I am especially interested.
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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: FragmentedSanity » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:18 am

Keen to see what you do with this one.
I love these crosman pistols. So simple, so easy to work on, and so many of the parts swap between models.
There are heaps of modding rescorces on the net.
I'd look up the poly tube transfer port mod, basically you just use a short not of tube in palce of the metal bushing. You can also buy expanded transfer ports which have 25% more flow... Or drill out the one you have.
http://alliancehobby.com
Personal favorite site for crosman goodies, there are heaps more, but that's the one I like (international delivery).

Any particular reason you picked the 1322 over the 1377?... Not that its hard to change between them.

The 177s seem to perform better with the stock setup, but that's because they use the same parts for both, so obviously the smaller pellet won't be quite as badly restricted.
I only like .22 pellets in the higher end guns. The 1322 can be nodded to some pretty crazy levels tho. How far are you planning to take this one?

I would have gone for the 2289, the pump forearm is much more comfortable for an adult, and the barrel band is already wide enough to take a longer barrel without modification, and you also get a shoulder stock with quick release hardware. But they are essentially the same gun if you take the stock off and out the pistol grips on, I just like the look of the 2289 better.
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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:40 am

FragmentedSanity wrote:Personal favorite site for crosman goodies, there are heaps more, but that's the one I like (international delivery).


Nice link, I'm planning on machining everything myself though.

Any particular reason you picked the 1322 over the 1377?... Not that its hard to change between them.


I went for 0.22" simply because there is more power potential with the larger caliber, there's only so many ft-lbs you can squeeze out of a 0.177" airgun.

The 177s seem to perform better with the stock setup, but that's because they use the same parts for both, so obviously the smaller pellet won't be quite as badly restricted.


Certainly you have to mod it less to get higher velocities from 0.177" but again it's ft-lbs I'm after ;)

I only like .22 pellets in the higher end guns. The 1322 can be nodded to some pretty crazy levels tho. How far are you planning to take this one?


As far as it will go, what I have in mind doesn't resemble any existing mod I've seen, we'll see if it pays off. I'm looking for at least 10 ft-lbs. Haven't actually started on it though beyond a few scribbles, my attention is being taking up by more immediate commercial concerns at the moment.

I would have gone for the 2289, the pump forearm is much more comfortable for an adult, and the barrel band is already wide enough to take a longer barrel without modification, and you also get a shoulder stock with quick release hardware. But they are essentially the same gun if you take the stock off and out the pistol grips on, I just like the look of the 2289 better.


I wanted a compact and self-contained pistol, the 1322 seemed to fit the bill.

Came across this interesting pdf, very small gains with minor polishing - http://www.mp661k.com/sitedocs/13xx_HotRod.pdf - this is why I want to do something more radical.
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Re: Crosman 1322

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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: FragmentedSanity » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:19 pm

That's a good doc, read it before, its one of the things that got me interested in modding these pistols.

Im very keen to see what you come up with. The idea of a mod for these pistols that hasn't been seen before is pretty impressive, there have been so many things done to them.

I'm keen to find a way to get a bigger valve in one, one that will hold more air, so I can pump it lots, then get a few of shots... Basically a poor mans PCP with an onboard pump. Can't think of a good way to do it without increasing the lenght of the main tube, and they are already big enough for a pistol...
But maybe I'll just use a maintube off one if the rifles and make it a carbnine instead, or maybe i can shorten the pump stroke and get more room that way, but that would likely make it too tedious to pump... But anyway, this thread is about your build so I'll quit thread jacking and wait to see what you turn out.
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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: PeteS » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:19 pm

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:very small gains with minor polishing - http://www.mp661k.com/sitedocs/13xx_HotRod.pdf - this is why I want to do something more radical.


...and why I think I may not do much to mine other than the trigger and sights. So I worked over the trigger and ordered a steel receiver and a better rear sight. I am thinking of making a nicer barrel band and front sight, or barrel band that accommodates a nicer manufactured front sight. I have to say that I am impressed with how nice it shoots after working the trigger over a bit.

I made a bullet trap (duct seal) and have been shooting it indoors quite a bit.

That said I am, as I said, looking forward to seeing what you do with yours.
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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:12 am

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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:36 am

Gippeto wrote:Some threads that may be of interest and add to the "bag of tricks". :)


Image

Shineh! Very nice, thanks for the inspiration :D

Image

Amazing that cutting out that bit of dead space can add 10% more energy. I'm gravitating towards the "flat top" piston too.

I'm keen to find a way to get a bigger valve in one, one that will hold more air, so I can pump it lots, then get a few of shots... Basically a poor mans PCP with an onboard pump.


Getting a useful amount of shots out of a setup like that would mean a large chamber and as you say would be very tedious to pump. I think you want the FX Independence ;) Not exactly the poor man's PCP though!

PeteS wrote:...and why I think I may not do much to mine other than the trigger and sights. So I worked over the trigger and ordered a steel receiver and a better rear sight. I am thinking of making a nicer barrel band and front sight, or barrel band that accommodates a nicer manufactured front sight. I have to say that I am impressed with how nice it shoots after working the trigger over a bit.


It is quite nice out of the box for the price I have to say, it's only the naff plastic parts that let it down aesthetically.
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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:17 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote: I think you want the FX Independence ;) Not exactly the poor man's PCP though!


He he....I'm reminded of a couple projects... here and here. :)

A little searching will turn up more info on either.
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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: FragmentedSanity » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:55 pm

Those were very nice links Gippetto. Definatley got my mind working!
I'd never heard of the FX independence, but it does seem to fit the bill of what I'm after quite well, Thanks for that Jack.
Should hopefully be able to find a way to do similar with a crosman pumper for a lot less money. I'd be happy with as little as three consistent shots without pumping, or even pumping it up to pressure, and topping off with a couple of pumps in between.... Just not 10+... Pumping gets old fast.

I've seen plenty of people get 2 shots out of their 1322 just with some valve work and a flat top piston. Worst case I'll settle for that!

Hey Jack, I know you said you were working on more commercial concerns, but let me know when your tinkering with this. If you wind up making custom parts, I for one would be interested... There's a fair market for crosman mods as far as I can tell.
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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:22 am

FragmentedSanity wrote:Hey Jack, I know you said you were working on more commercial concerns, but let me know when your tinkering with this. If you wind up making custom parts, I for one would be interested... There's a fair market for crosman mods as far as I can tell.


If I make something which is in demand, then it becomes a commercial concern :)

Aesthetically, this is the look I'm going for, a custom 357 Thompson Center Contender pistol which I have long admired:

TCContender357Magdone13w.jpg


TCContender357Magdone7w.jpg


Sadly suppressors are a big no-no here, but I might make a fake one in order to conceal a longer barrel.

Image

Mmmmmm...
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Re: Crosman 1322

Unread postAuthor: FragmentedSanity » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:58 am

That's s nifty looking gun, have a look at

http://tko22.com

They sell muzzel brakes that are supposedly quite good for making your guns more 'neighborhood friendly'.

Oh and they have a couple of nice info pages too... I'm interested in the 22xx HPA conversion using disco parts.

Haven't used one of the brakes yet myself, but I've read a lot of good things... Oh and the look awesome. $44 delivered in the US.
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