Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 32 users online :: 6 registered, 0 hidden and 26 guests


Most users ever online was 218 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

What the ATF considers a "firearm"

Built a combustion cannon? Then post it here! This section is for completed, finished cannons that you have built. Please include pictures and information.
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

What the ATF considers a "firearm"

Unread postAuthor: LikimysCrotchus5 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:20 pm

(This only applies to anyone is the U.S.)

Well i though about joining rocketry club at my school, and i talked to him about the hobby that we all participate in here, and he told me that the ATF considers anything that uses a explosive to propel something, a firearm.

So i did some research on the ATF website and i got a direct quote of this:

"The GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), defines the term “firearm” to include the following:
“…(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may be readily
converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive: (B) the frame or receiver of any
such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does
not include an antique firearm."

So since propane creates an explosion (and i guess can be a explosive) wouldn't any combustion guns be considered a firearm by the ATF?
  • 0

4SPC, My 4" piston 3" porting cannon
Memo:
Fix up copper cannon
Fix up 4SPC
Start Stirrup pump
Start Toolies piston bazooka
User avatar
LikimysCrotchus5
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:16 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:31 pm

I think it has to have a certain muzzle volicity to be considered a firearm.
  • 0

When life gives you lemons...throw them back they suck!
User avatar
jrrdw
Donating Moderator
Donating Moderator
 
Posts: 6539
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:11 pm
Location: Maryland
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 25

Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:34 pm

Eh... I'd say the words "destructive device" would cover any cannon whose owner they wished to have a hard time.

If you want to be sure about being legally safe , check with your police department because it's them that'd turn up.
  • 0

User avatar
Hotwired
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 2599
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:51 am
Location: UK
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:38 pm

jrrdw wrote:I think it has to have a certain muzzle volicity to be considered a firearm.

I think only solid fuelled, non muzzle loading cannons/rifles/etc count as firearms by US law, although state laws may differ... but I'm no expert, don't hold me to that.
  • 0

Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
User avatar
Ragnarok
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5339
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:23 am
Location: The UK
Reputation: 8

Unread postAuthor: LikimysCrotchus5 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:44 pm

Well there has to be something because we all see youtube videos of spray n prays and propane combustions and i havent heard anything from the ATF so i wonder what it is thats ok with them.
  • 0

4SPC, My 4" piston 3" porting cannon
Memo:
Fix up copper cannon
Fix up 4SPC
Start Stirrup pump
Start Toolies piston bazooka
User avatar
LikimysCrotchus5
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:16 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Pilgrimman » Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:24 pm

I think the term explosion is used technically, which means that combustions are ok because they deflagrate, not explode.
  • 0

Yeah, we wouldn't want to anger the bees, now would we??

I HATE YOU BEES! I HATE YOU BEES! I HATE YOU BEES!

LMAO Classic!!!! I love Family Guy!
User avatar
Pilgrimman
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:10 pm
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:11 pm

Pilgrimman wrote:I think the term explosion is used technically, which means that combustions are ok because they deflagrate, not explode.

All firearms deflagrate - M-16, Barrett, AK 47 - it's all deflagration.

However, the ATF has cleared spudguns:

ATF wrote:We have previously examined that certain muzzle loading devices known as "potato guns." These potato guns are constructed from PVC plastic tubing. They use hair spray or a similar aerosol substance for a propellant, and have some type of spark ignitor. We have determined that these devices, as described, are not firearms provided that they are used solely for launching potatoes for recreational purposes. However, any such devices which are used as weapons or used to launch other forms of projectiles may be firearms and destructive devices as defined.


Looking at it again, probably because of this clause:
The law wrote:The term 'destructive device' shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon
  • 0

Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
User avatar
Ragnarok
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5339
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:23 am
Location: The UK
Reputation: 8

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: blind909 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:12 pm

http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/viewtop ... 3324#13324 , read that, PCGUY sent a letter to the ATF, and it will tell you that they are legal.
  • 0

<a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/citysign.jpg" border="0"></a><div>
THIS STATES WHERE YOU LIVE, NOT ME, IT SAYS WHERE YOU LIVE BASED ON YOUR IP ADRESS.
User avatar
blind909
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 828
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:06 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Reputation: 1

Unread postAuthor: frankrede » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:20 pm

blind909 wrote:http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=13324#13324 , read that, PCGUY sent a letter to the ATF, and it will tell you that they are legal.
No he didn't;)
  • 0

Current project: Afghanistan deployment
User avatar
frankrede
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 3220
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:47 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:05 pm

Ragnarok wrote:...the ATF has cleared spudguns:

ATF wrote:We have previously examined that certain muzzle loading devices known as "potato guns." These potato guns are constructed from PVC plastic tubing. They use hair spray or a similar aerosol substance for a propellant, and have some type of spark ignitor. We have determined that these devices, as described, are not firearms provided that they are used solely for launching potatoes for recreational purposes. However, any such devices which are used as weapons or used to launch other forms of projectiles may be firearms and destructive devices as defined.


As long as it fires only potatoes and they hit no one or thing that isn't yours they're cleared. They're not ruling out the firearm and destructive device tag, just keeping it handy to dump on anyone that does something unwanted.
  • 0

User avatar
Hotwired
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 2599
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:51 am
Location: UK
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: DYI » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:05 pm

The term 'destructive device' shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon


That pretty much sums it up right there. Currently, most things that we would call a "spudgun" are pretty much legal in the States, which makes the situation there a lot different than most places in the world. Give them a few years though, I'm sure they'll do something about that... :roll:
  • 0

Spudfiles' resident expert on all things that sail through the air at improbable speeds, trailing an incandescent wake of ionized air, dissociated polymers and metal oxides.
User avatar
DYI
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 2861
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:18 pm
Location: The People's Republic of Canuckistan
Country: Turks and Caicos Islands (tc)
Reputation: 9

Unread postAuthor: brogdenlaxmiddie » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:40 pm

DYI wrote: Give them a few years though, I'm sure they'll do something about that... :roll:


Decades maybe?
  • 0


brogdenlaxmiddie
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 562
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:19 pm
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: LikimysCrotchus5 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:58 pm

Ah ok thanks for clearing that up for me. So now i can prove my rocketry team leader wrong (who is also a teacher).

So that means i will still build a hybrid, but not for a while.
  • 0

Last edited by LikimysCrotchus5 on Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
4SPC, My 4" piston 3" porting cannon
Memo:
Fix up copper cannon
Fix up 4SPC
Start Stirrup pump
Start Toolies piston bazooka
User avatar
LikimysCrotchus5
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:16 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: blind909 » Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:59 pm

frankrede wrote:
blind909 wrote:http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=13324#13324 , read that, PCGUY sent a letter to the ATF, and it will tell you that they are legal.
No he didn't;)


Im sorry, A friend of his did.
  • 0

<a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/citysign.jpg" border="0"></a><div>
THIS STATES WHERE YOU LIVE, NOT ME, IT SAYS WHERE YOU LIVE BASED ON YOUR IP ADRESS.
User avatar
blind909
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 828
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:06 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Reputation: 1

Return to Combustion Cannon Database

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'