Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 76 users online :: 3 registered, 0 hidden and 73 guests


Most users ever online was 155 on Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:40 am

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

Seperating pure Ether from starter fluid-

Post questions and info about combustion (flammable vapor) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, safety, and anything else relevant.
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

Seperating pure Ether from starter fluid-

Unread postAuthor: redchigh » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:25 am

I've had questions, so here you go.

I spray starter fluid in a clear bag with cold water- The hexane/heptaine mixes with the water. Tie off the bag, and cut the bottom corner. Drain out the BOTTOM layer, the clear liquid in the middle is Ether.
Here's a diagram.

-------------------------
| C02 (or propane)
|-------------------------
|Ether
|-------------------------
|Heptaine/Water mix
|__________________
Cut here -^ to drain out water mixture and pour ether into second container. Use quickly- Only seperate as much as you can use. Its VERY Dangerous to store- If it forms crystals, gently dispose of it- they are explosive oxides.
MSDS Safety sheet for Ether- Must read!- www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Ethyl_ether-9927164[/url]
  • 0


redchigh
Private
Private
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:02 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:32 am

I thought heptane was not miscible in water..., with a density of 0.684 g/cm<sup>3</sup> it's usually the upper phase.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: redchigh » Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:40 pm

Well I actually got the directions from a drug-use web site... and thats how they seperate the ether to get a high off of it... I hate to say it, but drug-users are ingenius when it comes to their drugs...
(If only they would quit the drugs and turn to a more productive thing like spudding [like me :-p] )

The site claimed it was the condensation point that made it mix. *Shrug*
  • 0


redchigh
Private
Private
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:02 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Scope » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:32 pm

redchigh wrote:Well I actually got the directions from a drug-use web site... and thats how they seperate the ether to get a high off of it... I hate to say it, but drug-users are ingenius when it comes to their drugs...
(If only they would quit the drugs and turn to a more productive thing like spudding [like me :-p] )

The site claimed it was the condensation point that made it mix. *Shrug*


recreational drug users are the inventors and businessmen of the future. They learn quickly how to invest, turn a profit, and advertise. They also can make anything out of anything to fit there need.
  • 0

User avatar
Scope
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:31 pm
Location: Ct
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: MikeNice » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:04 am

So that makes them WINNERS! (sarcasm so thick you could cut it) They also learn quickly how to steal, lie, and blame everything and everyone else for their problems. Not the place for this discussion I know.

Pure ether is very, very dangerous. I can't even say it enough. It is HIGHLY unstable. It can explode in your face sending out shards of whatever it was being stored in, glass being a common storage medium. There are plenty of powerful, cheap, and safe fuels out there that people don't really need to play with ether. I strongly discourage it. In my opinion, it's just not worth it.
  • 0

User avatar
MikeNice
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Queen Creek, AZ
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:27 pm

MikeNice wrote:So that makes them WINNERS! (sarcasm so thick you could cut it) They also learn quickly how to steal, lie, and blame everything and everyone else for their problems. Not the place for this discussion I know.

Pure ether is very, very dangerous. I can't even say it enough. It is HIGHLY unstable. It can explode in your face sending out shards of whatever it was being stored in, glass being a common storage medium. There are plenty of powerful, cheap, and safe fuels out there that people don't really need to play with ether. I strongly discourage it. In my opinion, it's just not worth it.


Pure ether is not unstable. It is incredibly flammable (worse than gasoline) but it is not unstable. The boiling point of ether is low enough that it will just about boil if you just pour it into your hand.

Old ether, that doesn't contain any water or preservatives, can form peroxides that are unstable. This is usually only a problem if you take a large volume of ether and evaporate it. This concentrates any peroxides present which can present an explosion hazard.
  • 0

Image

jimmy101
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 3127
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:48 am
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Unread postAuthor: MikeNice » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:41 pm

So incredibly flammable and a boiling point so low it will just about boil in you hand ISN'T unstable? OK. Incredibly flammable, more so than gasoline, but not unstable? Hmmm. Maybe we are disagreeing on what stable is . . .
  • 0

Your face is going to freeze like that. http://iplaaz.freehostia.com/
User avatar
MikeNice
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Queen Creek, AZ
Reputation: 0

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: DYI » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:48 pm

An unstable substance (by my very unscientific description), is one that can spontaneously decompose in a violent manner with little input energy. Things like pure compressed acetylene, or asphalt soaked in liquid oxygen that seem to explode if you look at them the wrong way. Just because a substance is highly flammable does not make it unstable.
  • 0

Spudfiles' resident expert on all things that sail through the air at improbable speeds, trailing an incandescent wake of ionized air, dissociated polymers and metal oxides.
User avatar
DYI
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 2861
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:18 pm
Location: The People's Republic of Canuckistan
Country: Turks and Caicos Islands (tc)
Reputation: 9

Unread postAuthor: MikeNice » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:20 pm

An unstable substance (by my very unscientific description), is one that can spontaneously decompose in a violent manner with little input energy.


Ether decomposes into a gaseous state at room temperature readily, so by your own definition ether IS unstable. Also, the post was talking about "PURE ETHER" not ether mixed with water or preservatives.

My point was simply that ether is dangerous and there are plenty of better, cheap, significantly less hazardous, MORE STABLE, fuels out there. Just what we need here is some careless noob to come in, think it's a good idea to separate pure ether from starting fluid, get careless with it and die in his garage fro asphyxiation. Ether also has a nasty habit of displacing oxygen, thats why it was used as an anesthesia and is huffed. [/quote]
  • 0

Your face is going to freeze like that. http://iplaaz.freehostia.com/
User avatar
MikeNice
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Queen Creek, AZ
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:37 pm

Well, sheesh why would you want to seperate it in the first place??? Starter fluid is HIGHLY flammable and powerful as a fuel, and it isn't really recommended in itself for a fuel anyways... Why make it more flammable than that???
  • 0

<img>http://www.speedtest.net/result/309559995.png</img>
User avatar
ammosmoke
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1011
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:57 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:52 pm

So that makes them WINNERS! (sarcasm so thick you could cut it) They also learn quickly how to steal, lie, and blame everything and everyone else for their problems.


Why is that sarcastic? Isn't that what succesful businessmen do? Financial wealth does not bestow you with any sort of moral highground, on purely ethical terms they are no different. I think you just reinforced scope's statement :)
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:20 am

By all technical defintions of "unstable" and "stable" ether is "stable". Yes, it is a bit more of a fire hazard than gasoline, but it is about the same as acetone (e.g., nail polish remover, which will almost boil in your hands). Since you probably have a bottle of nail polish remover in your house right now, and you don't classify nail polish remover as "HIGHLY unstable", then why would you classify ether that way?

Besides, propane, butane etc. iare even more volatile than ether and you probably have a couple containers of them in your house. Got any displosable lighters? How about cans of spray paint?

So, by pretty much any definition of "unstable" and "stable" ether is stable.
  • 0

Image

jimmy101
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 3127
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:48 am
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Unread postAuthor: MikeNice » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:16 pm

Yes or no, can ether remain in a liquid state open, at room temperature? No it cannot. Why?

I think you are confusing stability for chemical reactivity. Ether is not very chemically reactive. This does not mean the same thing as stable.
  • 0

Your face is going to freeze like that. http://iplaaz.freehostia.com/
User avatar
MikeNice
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Queen Creek, AZ
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:57 pm

MikeNice wrote:Yes or no, can ether remain in a liquid state open, at room temperature? No it cannot. Why?

Can propane? Can water? The physical state of a substance has very little to do with its stability. Ether as a gas is 100% stable, as it is when it is a liquid. It will not spontaneously decompose.

MikeNice wrote:I think you are confusing stability for chemical reactivity.

I think you are confusing evaporation with stability. Water evaporates, that does not make it unstable.

MikeNice wrote:Ether is not very chemically reactive. This does not mean the same thing as stable.

Non-chemically reactive does indeed mean the same things as stable.

I suspect I know a heck of a lot more about chemical reactivity than you do. Besides, without chemical reactivity there is no change. Doesn't matter what the physical state of ethers is, until it undergoes a chemical reaction it is stable. Evaporation of ether is not a sign that it is "HIGHLY unstable".

Ether is chemically reactive, that is why it is a fire hazard. But wood is also a fire hazard and wood is not classified as "HIGHLY unstable".

Ether, wood, propane etc. all require an igntion source to react with air (i.e., combust). Without air (or some other oxidizer) and an ignition source they are all stable.
  • 0

Image

jimmy101
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 3127
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:48 am
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:24 pm

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
un·sta·ble [uhn-stey-buhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. not stable; not firm or firmly fixed; unsteady.
2. liable to fall or sway.
3. unsteadfast; inconstant; wavering: unstable convictions.
4. marked by emotional instability: an unstable person.
5. irregular in movement: an unstable heartbeat.
6. Chemistry. noting compounds that readily decompose or change into other compounds.

[Origin: 1175–1225; ME; see un-1, stable2]

—Related forms
un·sta·ble·ness, noun
un·sta·bly, adverb

—Synonyms 2. precarious. 2, 3. See unsettled. 3. vacillating.Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unstable[/b]
  • 0

<img>http://www.speedtest.net/result/309559995.png</img>
User avatar
ammosmoke
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1011
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:57 am
Reputation: 0

Next

Return to Combustion Cannon Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'