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Flash Circuit Problems

Post questions and info about combustion (flammable vapor) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: CannonCreator » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:18 am

no a D size sompacitor for $2-$3 were i live. And you don understand. I dont want to mess with a flash circuit anymore. If I can make a circuit with a battery pack and compacitor without transformers, I will try it that way. But I still have to try at the flash circuit.
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Unread postAuthor: dewey-1 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:03 am

--
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Last edited by dewey-1 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: TurboSuper » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:32 pm

Just to add to what Dewey said:

You can run an ignition coil off 12v, but you said you didn't want to use one, and you're going to have to step up the voltage somehow.

And I don't know what a "D" sized capacitor is, I'm assuming that means it's around the same size as a D-Cell battery, in which case $2 sounds reasonable.
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Unread postAuthor: MisterSteve124 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:45 pm

how the heck are you going to get it to spark without using an ignition coil? The spark doesn't jump a gap. But anyways it's hard for us to help you when we don't know exactly what you did to the circuit and stuff.
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Unread postAuthor: CannonCreator » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:45 pm

I screwed up using the wiki. Cuase Its for adding ignition coils, and realy crap. I took out the flash tube, and drilled a hole were it was unneeed, connect two copper strips, I believe.

I am going to get a new circuit, and im not going to take anything off of it, only the stock charging switch. That way I can connect 2 wires to the compactior and lead it to the firing switch, leading onto the aligator clips that will hold the steel wool. And I will reaplace the charge switch with a flip on/off switch.

This way the sircuit isnt cut anywere, and I wll just rob the charge right out of the compacitor instead off through a series of copper strips. And I won't even cut off the - and + electricity inlets. I will simply solder the 9v harness to them. The flash tube will never even be used, It will stay there so I dont screw anything up. Cuase I will be taking the charge right out of the compacitor.

I know I just explained it over a few times, but just so you guys get my theory.

This will work, won't it?

and remmeber Im not using this in a cannon.
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Unread postAuthor: silverdooty » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:05 pm

misstersteve124
the simplest camera flash ignition does not require an ignition coil and has a decent size spark. there has been plenty of threads on camera flash ignitions
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Unread postAuthor: CannonCreator » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:31 am

ya but there for if you want ignition coils, and automotive relays
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:14 am

Putting 9v where 1.5v is saposed to be, if it works, it probly wont last long. I heard some where that over charged capasiters can explode if over charged. Be carefull with that.
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Unread postAuthor: nz_cannons » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:37 am

From experience using more then about 3-4volts on those little camera flash circuits will damage them. Most probably the main transistor will burn out because of too much current. Or the voltage will damage it. Really depends on the exact circuit though.

the simplest camera flash ignition does not require an ignition coil and has a decent size spark. there has been plenty of threads on camera flash ignitions


I don't know why people insist on using this method, although it does produce a loud spark it isn't particually big, it's also not convenient as it requires three wires and perfectly positioned electrodes.
You also can't have more then one spark with one circuit very easily.

With a spark coil you only need 2 wires, you get a large spark, and can hook up as many in series as you like.
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Unread postAuthor: silverdooty » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:03 am

nz_cannons wrote:
I don't know why people insist on using this method, although it does produce a loud spark it isn't particually big, it's also not convenient as it requires three wires and perfectly positioned electrodes.
You also can't have more then one spark with one circuit very easily.

With a spark coil you only need 2 wires, you get a large spark, and can hook up as many in series as you like.


let's see your component/price list for your ignition coil setup.

the extra components needed for a SIMPLE camera flash ignition are one more wire, one more wire connector, and one more electrode.

usually more components translate into more time to assemble, more money and more things to go wrong.

how is this less convenient?


say POP!
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Unread postAuthor: CannonCreator » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:44 am

Wait so for a camera flash circuit you can only put 1.5v through it?

(1 AA) or can I put multiple AA's through it, like a battery pack of 2 or 4 AA'S ?
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Unread postAuthor: nz_cannons » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:42 pm

You can use 2AAs in series which would give you about 3 volts which works with these circuits.

Basically all your doing with a system that uses a Ignition coil is discharging the main capacitor through the coil, which gives you your spark, pretty simple. This can be done a number of ways.

First, you could hardwire a switch between the cap and the coil, let the cap charge up then throw the switch, which would create the spark, then return the switch to the off position. Although this isn't the best way to do it, as arcing on the swith contacts will degrade the switch over time, a light switch would probably work even though it's rated lower.

Second. You can use the flash itself to act as a switch between the cap and the coil. just put it in series with the coil as you would a regular switch. Fire the flash to create a circuit between the cap and the coil, although I don't like using this method much, I would say you lose power when it flashes.

Third. Use a solid state triggering device such as an SCR (my fav) or a high value transistor. These can easily handle the voltages and currents of the capacitor discharging, just make sure you know the specs of the one your using. Not particularly hard to wire into the circuit either, if you have a few soldering skills etc.
I wrote a pretty decent "How-to" in the how to section on doing it that way.

Ok maybe the last one isn't as "convenient" but hooking up 2 electrodes at any distance (within reason) I would say is easier then having to position three at exactly the right distance so the air can ionise and you get a spark etc. But yeah, thats just me.
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Unread postAuthor: CannonCreator » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:48 pm

I said like 10 times im not going to use a ignition coil!
ur confusing me more.

What I want to do is solder 2 wires onto the compacitor on the board. The 2 wires coming out, will have a momentary switch to let the charge to the alligator clips through the steel wool.

Does that sound like it will work?
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Unread postAuthor: TurboSuper » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:13 pm

You may as well just set it up and give it a test, it's not like what you're describing is the eptiome of compexity or anything...

I figure either the steel wool will act as a short and nothing will happen, or the steel wool will melt, or you'll get small arcs between the fibers.

Try it and see.
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Unread postAuthor: CannonCreator » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:43 pm

lol I know if it works its going to spark dude. I just want to know if the switch will break or anything gay like that.
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