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Source for unregulated propane fitting

Post questions and info about combustion (flammable vapor) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Source for unregulated propane fitting

Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:21 pm

Need to connect to a standard propane tank. The type you see on BBQ grills. What are they, 5 gallons? In any event, I do NOT want a regulator.

Anybody have a source for a fitting for those threads that does NOT include a regulator?


edit: Never mind... I'd looked before and not found anything. This time I found something quite quickly. :oops:

For those who may be interested, I think this will do the trick.

http://www.protanksupply.com/accessorie ... p?sku=3000
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:42 pm

The new fittings have a safety flow limiter.

After it has blown closed, the flow is limited to a very small amount. A special tool is used to reset it. Some are not self resetting, and needs a special tool.

This device has an excess flow valve


From your link.

For high flow, find an old style POL fitting, they still fit the new valves, but don't have this flow safety limiter.

Image
POL fitting Grrr.. URL made my post blank. Linked to image instead. 8)

Edit, if you hunt for them, these can be found with an o ring. If you find them, get them. They don't need a wrench to keep it from leaking.
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Last edited by Technician1002 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:46 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:43 pm

Sorry for the double post. Trying to get a URL to work without making a blank post.. :oops:
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:13 pm

Going for old tech doesn't really help me much. I need current tech that can be reliably purchased. Easier to just gang 6 tanks in parallel (what I plan on doing) to get the flows I need rather than count on being able to find old tanks and such in the future.
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Last edited by D_Hall on Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:22 pm

D_Hall wrote:Going for old tech doesn't really help me much. I need current tech that can be reliably purchased. Easier to just gang 6 tanks in parallel (what I plan on doing) to get the flows I need.


I didn't know your application. I was assuming green gas where high flow at high pressure is needed. For lower flow, the new tech is fine. Not everyone is aware of the flow limiter, so I mentioned it and the possible complications in a high flow use.

Why gang six tanks?? PM me if it is a contest secret. I'm not doing green gas, so I won't spill the beans if this is what you are wanting. Six tanks ganged is not very portable and gives many more places for leaks. One single tank is easier to handle.

Propane is bottled by weight. A standard propane grill bottle is 20 pounds. It is about 5 gallons.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:09 am

I have a fitting that hooks up directly to the tank and has a hose barb on the other end.... I don't know where to find one... I found it in some shop and I knew I had to buy it becasue they are so rare and difficult to find
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Unread postAuthor: benstern » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:59 am

Technician1002's POL fitting would do the job

it's not that it is outdated. they just use the other interface for ease of use if i understand correctly.

or you could buy a new regular one and drill out the built-in limiter.
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:54 am

Can't you make your own adapter, cutting threads on a lathe?
I'm sure you have acces to one.

Just look up the specifications of the thread or measure them, and apply any other type of thread you may like on the other side.
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:34 am

psycix wrote:Can't you make your own adapter, cutting threads on a lathe?

I could, but I'm trying to keep everything COTS as much as possible.


Note: Another advantage of ganging multiple cylinders is temperature effects from dumping a high percentage of the tank(s) total volume in a short period of time. True, this could be solved by going with a larger tank, but I like the idea of being able to drop by Home Depot / Walmart / Etc... to just swap out tanks when I need to refill.

To whomever suggested simply drilling out the safety valve... Hmmm.. I'm liking that idea. It's not *quite* COTS, but it's very very close.



edit: I see 'twere Ben. OK, to Ben and Tech... I was of the impression that the industry was trying to move to the newer style. Is this not the case? I'm perfectly willing to be educated here.


edit again: To Tech... You're somewhat new around here. Suffice to say that application is a large spud gun. Large, as in, it will require a semi to move it from one place to another.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:10 am

Technician1002 wrote:Why gang six tanks?? PM me if it is a contest secret.


Who's up for creating a new in-joke where we specifically don't discuss what Hall is doing, just that he's doing stuff :D
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Unread postAuthor: starman » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:10 am

Here's another location...

http://www.northlineexpress.com/categor ... -Parts.asp

This stuff can usually found where space heater parts are sold...
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:47 am

D_Hall wrote:
psycix wrote:Can't you make your own adapter, cutting threads on a lathe?

I could, but I'm trying to keep everything COTS as much as possible.


Note: Another advantage of ganging multiple cylinders is temperature effects from dumping a high percentage of the tank(s) total volume in a short period of time. True, this could be solved by going with a larger tank, but I like the idea of being able to drop by Home Depot / Walmart / Etc... to just swap out tanks when I need to refill.

To whomever suggested simply drilling out the safety valve... Hmmm.. I'm liking that idea. It's not *quite* COTS, but it's very very close.



edit: I see 'twere Ben. OK, to Ben and Tech... I was of the impression that the industry was trying to move to the newer style. Is this not the case? I'm perfectly willing to be educated here.


edit again: To Tech... You're somewhat new around here. Suffice to say that application is a large spud gun. Large, as in, it will require a semi to move it from one place to another.


I'm generally against modifying a safety device. If it gets passed on to someone else who doesn't know anything and expects it to work.. If the item never had a safety device.. Like using a GFI protected or a regular extension cord near a pool. Which is better, a bypassed GFI or none at all. Nuf said.

Temperature effects are fully understood. The Fire Organ had the same issues. It didn't use much propane, but did require a 500 gallon tank.

The industry is moving to the new style in CONSUMER products. Commercial applications which require high volume delivery does NOT use the new style. Examples are propane forklifts and home bulk for heating and cooking.

:shock: A SEMI :shock: :shock: just to move it.. I think this does not qualify as a consumer level item. I would recommend a bulk application. If it is for a combustion application, the norm to prevent pressure loss is to jet the metering on the appliance for normal 11 inch WC with a regulator at the appliance and plumb from the bulk cylinder off a "High Pressure" regulator of 10-15 PSI. If this is for direct cylinder pressure applications liquid delivery with an evaporator works wonders. Often these run off the engine water jacket, but a instant on demand water heater can be adapted to provide the hot water.

I'm new. I will look up his project. :D Gotta be massive. I like the way you think. :cheers:


Edit. I just looked up the pipe dream. As a cannon, the fuel requirements are much less than that required for a Fire Organ. A 2 stage fuel delivery should work fine. Due to the volume you need in a short time frame, you will need the high BTU capacity the home consumer level

A low pressure (20-50 PSI) accumulator tank could be used to store vapor ready for high volume delivery for reloading. Using a pressure tank of propane vapor and a tank of air at the same pressure and proper proportion of volume, a mix on delivery system for rapid reload can be built.

references;
High volume propane vaporizer
http://www.altenergy.com/2006/Vaporizers.htm

high pressure regulator for 2 stage delivery 10 PSI
http://www.propane101.com/highpressureregulators.htm
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Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:39 pm

Technician1002 wrote:I'm generally against modifying a safety device. If it gets passed on to someone else who doesn't know anything and expects it to work.. If the item never had a safety device.. Like using a GFI protected or a regular extension cord near a pool. Which is better, a bypassed GFI or none at all. Nuf said.

D_Hall probably has even more trouble than you with modifying safety related features. He has to get it past OSHA, in-house safety inspectors, let alone himself.
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:50 pm

jimmy101 wrote:
Technician1002 wrote:I'm generally against modifying a safety device. If it gets passed on to someone else who doesn't know anything and expects it to work.. If the item never had a safety device.. Like using a GFI protected or a regular extension cord near a pool. Which is better, a bypassed GFI or none at all. Nuf said.

D_Hall probably has even more trouble than you with modifying safety related features. He has to get it past OSHA, in-house safety inspectors, let alone himself.


As a commercial application (this is beyond consumer level equipment) and needing all the safety inspections, the propane system should be fully constructed using industrial standards. On a mobile platform (semi-trailer) DOT regulations must also be complied with. As such there is no reason to go with the new fittings. They may be under sized to fill his fuel BTU delivery rate.

The new valves on the tanks will still take a POL fitting. BBQ tanks work with these. High BTU appliances that are never left unattended even for a moment (unlike a BBQ which is often left unattended while stuff cooks) items like weed burners and such still come with POL connections. I just saw them today at Home Depot so this is not old data.

On the search, you are in the right place when you find this;
In any event, the Pipe Dream is (if it ever gets built) a 19" bore 2X hybrid designed to shoot a 100 pound projectile at 1000 fps.


Deadline.. Contest.. :wav: :bounce: :bounce: Can't wait to see the plywood destruction. :D

Edit, the normal way to deliver propane in a high btu application is to use a primary regulator at 10 PSI and regulate it down to the burner pressure at the appliance which is most often 11 inch W.C.

Info on first and second stage regulators for high BTU applications
http://www.teecoproducts.com/catalog/A1.htm

A regulator with a taped vent can be used to track supply air instead of atmosphere.
Features: Large vent helps prevent vent blockage, tapped for 3/8" F.NPT for vent piping -


A 2 X combustion would need 15 PSI at delivery. Metering would be at much higher pressure. At the volume mentioned, an adjustable regulator of up to 60 PSI is recommended for traditional propane meters or a flow rate delivery to meter on fill using a calibrated orifice or venturi may be in order. A low pressure engine regulator can be used with a propane carburetor if it's vent is equalized to the air supply pressure. In this application fuel/air mix would be used to "vent" purge the chamber between shots. A high BTU delivery fuel system would need to be used.
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:49 pm

I do NOT want regulated propane. I'll be injecting it at full 250 psi (or whatever nominal pressure is). I want a high energy gas flow to maximize turbulence (purpose: improved mixing of gases). Fuel measurement will simply be via high accuracy pressure gages. As in....

Step 1) Fill chamber to X.XX psi with propane.
Step 2) Fill chamber to Y.YY psi with air.


Edit: Oh, and DOT need not apply. I may be portable, but as I will never be on a public road with propane in the system, DOT regs do not apply.
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