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Does it count as a firearm?

Post questions and info about combustion (flammable vapor) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: FLONE » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:57 pm

In my medium sized city in Minnesota it is not classified as a firearm because it does not use a cartridge. It is however, regulated as if is a firearm because it can launch a projectile by the process of compressed gasses.

So I don't use it in the city limits.
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Unread postAuthor: jagerbond » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:11 pm

FLONE wrote:In my medium sized city in Minnesota it is not classified as a firearm because it does not use a cartridge. It is however, regulated as if is a firearm because it can launch a projectile by the process of compressed gasses.

So I don't use it in the city limits.


Here's the state's definition.. Do you have a copy of the city's outlining the cartridge?
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Unread postAuthor: jagerbond » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:27 pm

<a href="http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,27574,26016817-2682,00.html">Mythbusters inspired spud gun escapade</a>
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Unread postAuthor: dewey-1 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:48 pm

FLONE wrote:In my medium sized city in Minnesota it is not classified as a firearm because it does not use a cartridge. It is however, regulated as if is a firearm because it can launch a projectile by the process of compressed gasses.

So I don't use it in the city limits.


FLONE !

Where you been hiding?

That is such a hassle, even in the suburbs.
I am sure the smaller cities even have restrictions.

I remember hunting in what is the suburb Burnsville.
Revealing my age again!

Some of the townships near me permit firearm usage.

In just a month or so I will be hearing duck hunters shotgun blasts on the lake near me which less than 1/4 mile away and near city limits. The pond out my backdoor is called Winnebago. Google it.
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Unread postAuthor: Willdebeers » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:29 pm

Does anyone know the legality of spudguns in the UK?
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Unread postAuthor: Moonbogg » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:50 pm

Just to share, I have been stopped in Angeles national forest by a ranger rolling up on me with lights flashing. People down below in the valley called 911 because they thought they were being shot at by a sniper from up above. He pulled up and to make a long story short, he was impressed with the cannon and shared how he and his kid made one before. He radioed back to station and reported that it was a potato gun and not a firearm. He then told me (based on his knowledge) that it was not illegal to do this and to only be aware and careful.
I was stopped for having outdated tags on my car while driving out to the desert with my huge hybrid cannon. The cop asiked where I was going and I said I was looking for a place to shoot it. He directed me to the local open shooting range in the desert and said to have fun shooting my potato cannon.
Another instance I was driving in the mountains looking foir a place to shoot. I flagged down a passing cop cruiser to ask him where I could go. He directed me to the local shooting range. I asked if I could shoot golf balls at their range and they said only if I rent a private range for the day for $80.00.
So, in my experience cops are not going to bother you unless you are unlucky or have an attitude. If they see you are using it in a responsible manner in a safe area, I don't see how you could be bothered, especially if you are around other guys whooting REAL firearms with MUCH more power and lethality than any potato, lime or golf ball could ever produce.
As far as the official legal version goes, I under the impression that it is vague and not inforced unless someone is misusing it with the INTENT to destroy property or injur others or simply using it around neighbors who get freaked out and report you.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:52 pm

Willdebeers wrote:Does anyone know the legality of spudguns in the UK?

Not very. However, "special effects cannons" are much more legal, if you get my drift.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:37 pm

I'm not sure about that, I've not confirmed anything of their legality.

But if you could prove genuine use as one and presumably didn't have it too much in an inappropriate style I suspect it would have a better outcome.

What I mostly see being hired out with no bother are CO2 cannons which are usually said to be for launching confetti/streamers. Not seeing car flipping scale cannons for hire... Some small scale things plus an operator are openly available though.

Mind you, if the going rate for hiring a 20mm steel cannon plus an operator is £500 a day I'm going to start my own business *_*
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:30 am

jagerbond wrote:<a href="http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,27574,26016817-2682,00.html">Mythbusters inspired spud gun escapade</a>


It's nice to know there are still judges out there with a sense of humour who haven't completely forgotten what it means to be a little boy trapped in man's body :)

Does anyone know the legality of spudguns in the UK?


As far as UK law goes, it is my understanding that a barrelled device capable of launching a projectile with a muzzle energy in excess of 12 ft/lbs is technically a firearm which requires a good reason to be owned and an appropriate license, the illegal possesion of which carries a mandatory 5 year sentence.

That's the law, but the crux of the matter is how it is applied. I think how you use the device is what's crucual. For example it is my understanding any airgun (sub 12 ft/lbs, legally owned) used to commit a crime becomes a de facto firearm in the eyes of the law. Keep it to yourself and stay out of trouble and your chances of being prosecuted are greatly reduced.
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Unread postAuthor: inonickname » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:41 am

For example it is my understanding any airgun (sub 12 ft/lbs, legally owned) used to commit a crime becomes a de facto firearm in the eyes of the law. Keep it to yourself and stay out of trouble and your chances of being prosecuted are greatly reduced.

Exactly. While special effects cannons are 'above the law' I'm sure if you loaded them with flechettes and opened fire on your neighbors it could definitely be seen differently.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:36 am

I'm going to correct Jack on a few points, if we're talking seriously.

Anything above 1 Joule (~0.75 ft-lbf) is a firearm. Any air pistol below 6 ft-lbf, or air rifle below 12 ft-lbf (unless either commits a Section 5 offence) is considered "Not especially dangerous", and can be held without licence if you are over 18. I believe it's possible to own one at above 14, but not purchase one.

Anything that is not air powered (CO2 is considered to be legal) receives no such leeway. Also, the law is disappointingly vague on the cut off point between pistols and rifles. I know it's based on length, and the FX Verminator at 64 cm minimal operative length is considered a rifle within the law.

Above this power, you commit a Section 5 offence for pistols, and (without a section 1 licence) a Section 1 offence for rifles, with mandatory sentencing of 5 years and 1 year respectively.

A rifle of any power, or a pistol of sub 6 ft-lbf can commit a section 5 offence offences, which include things such as being a revolver gun with a smoothbore barrel, full auto capacity, firing incendiary or rocket propelled projectiles, or is somehow disguised.
Rifled semi-autos other than .22 rimfire are stated in all versions, but some sources say that rifled semi-autos airguns are considered acceptable (no-one has yet taken the risk of finding out what customs would say though).

Anything that visibly resembles a firearm, but is insufficiently powerful (i.e. below 1 Joule) can be considered a Realistic Imitation Firearm, which ironically, are harder to own than an air rifle.

There are some exceptions. Anything that passes as a paintball gun gets some leeway (in fact, I think paintball pistols are one of the very few things allowed to exceed 6 ft-lbf)

@Hotwired: That's £500 just for the cannon... £350 for each 10 hours of "experienced operator".

Sounds like fun, getting £850 a day for that kind of thing. The fact that you could build a cannon that would make a mockery of that one for half what they're charging for it alone for one day.
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