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"New" Fuel Has anyone seen / used this?

Post questions and info about combustion (flammable vapor) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, safety, and anything else relevant.
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"New" Fuel Has anyone seen / used this?

Unread postAuthor: MikeNice » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:01 pm

I was kicking around home depot (buying my new Bernzomatic torch head to cut and thread for my injection system) when I spotted this. This is the new Bernzomatic Quick torch. That little can on the bottom is the question. After doing some digging I've discovered the torch runs on propylene. Fine. Except if you look at the canister, on the base is an "S" that is probably as thick as the the walls of the canister that runs across the diameter of the tank. (think of a yin yang) It looks like the tank is divided into 2 compartments. Here's the kicker, the sticker on the side of the tank says "Oxidizer" across the bottom . . . I couldn't find anything on the oxidizer though and I dug around for quite a while. Ok so the question is who here knows something about this and who has used it for an on board direct inject fuel? Anyone? Bueller?[/img]
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Attachments
bernzomatic-quickfire.jpg
bernzomatic-quickfire.jpg (19.24 KiB) Viewed 1454 times
canister.jpg
OXIDIZER
canister.jpg (31.62 KiB) Viewed 1313 times
canister base.jpg
See how it looks like the tank is divided?
canister base.jpg (22.77 KiB) Viewed 1313 times
Last edited by MikeNice on Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:01 pm

I did a quick search and what the word is more likely to be is
"Odorized".

Other than that, sounds like a normal compressed flammable gas torch which burns using atmospheric air.
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Unread postAuthor: metalmeltr » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:21 pm

it is just a small canister of propelene gas
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Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:07 pm

Looking at the torch head I don't see any air inlet holes like a normal Bernzomatic torch mixer head would have.

http://www.bernzomatic.com/quickfire-hand-torch.aspx

Looks like a standard type torch though exactly where the air inlet is still unclear, must be back on the body somewhere. The web site appears to say that the cylinder just contains propylene and not oxidizer.
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:16 pm

The air inlet is in the normal location in the torch head, It is covered by the plastic. There is a grill on the side of the plastic (3 slots) to let air in the housing.
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Unread postAuthor: chenslee » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:26 am

I've got a tank. It's compatible with the 1lb tank adapters. The fuel works fine on my cannons.

I have a 3D model of it.
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Unread postAuthor: MikeNice » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:27 pm

Ok so after some of the responses (one suggesting I mis-read Oxidizer as Oderizer . . . . c'mon, I'm not looking at a Febreze can) I went back to Home Depot to take pictures of the tank which I poasted to my original. As you can see, the label clearly says "OXIDIZER" and it appears the tank is divided as I originally stated. I know it's a tank of propene / propylene, but it's not JUST a tank of propene. I would really appreciate answers / responses from anyone who knows for sure what the Bernzomatic people did with this for sure. I have no doubt the torch works great, thats not what I'm asking about. I'm asking about the divided tank and the oxidizer. If you're not sure, please don't suggest I'm mistaken, the pics are there. If you have used this for a cannon please let me know.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:14 pm

hmm that's interesting... I am guessing it's not pure o2 but rather N2O
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:46 pm

MikeNice wrote:Ok so after some of the responses (one suggesting I mis-read Oxidizer as Oderizer . . . . c'mon, I'm not looking at a Febreze can) I went back to Home Depot to take pictures of the tank which I poasted to my original. As you can see, the label clearly says "OXIDIZER" If you're not sure, please don't suggest I'm mistaken, the pics are there.
The pictures are there now but when I posted they were not.

The data sheet which I looked up for you before posting has absolutely no reference to the yellow propylene can containing an oxidiser but it has been odorised - "stenched to allow detection of leaks" as it says.

Read it yourself: http://www.bernzomatic.com/Portals/8/Resources/msdsSheets/2010-all%20propylene%20msds.pdf

Found in the top of this section: http://www.bernzomatic.com/resources/msds-sheets.aspx

Also the news release for the blowtorch: http://www.bernzomatic.com/newsroom/bernzomatic-quickfire-torch.aspx

Tank doesn't look like it's divided, it has one filling port and one outlet port like a normal can.
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:20 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:hmm that's interesting... I am guessing it's not pure o2 but rather N2O


Doubtful.

If I read the vapor pressure table for propylene correctly, at roughly room temp its going to be at roughly 220 psi. Nitrous would be more like 800 psi. The pressure differential would make for a very odd pressure vessel that would be difficult to optimize.


edit: Wait.... Unless it wasn't a side to side split but rather one tank inside of the other. That could be interesting....



edit2: LOL... THat's what I get for doing unit conversions and such in my head. Short version is that looking at the MSDS for Quickfire tanks....

It shows pressure as 160 psi @ 68 deg

But further, it makes no mention of an oxidizer. Propylene and propane. That's it.
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Unread postAuthor: MikeNice » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:06 am

Looks i'll have to buy one just to cut it open. Ill poast pics when I'm done.
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Unread postAuthor: Crna Legija » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:37 am

make sure it completely empty before you cut don't need any explosions. i would fill if with water then epmty it out and cut it
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Unread postAuthor: ramses » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:35 pm

It is worth mentioning that some plastics occasionally find use as oxidizers in pyrotechnics. Teflon is the most commonly used one, IIRC.

It is possible that they mean that the propylene has some potential to oxidize something. Even CO2 will oxidize Magnesium.

Why someone would use an oxidizer as fuel is beyond me.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:53 pm

is it possible that the oxidiser is mixed with the fuel ? well if it isn't then there are two outlets on hte tank - one for the fuel and one for the oxidiser... so probably there is no need to cut the tank open
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Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:14 pm

I don't think there is any chance there is oxidizer mixed with fuel. That would make the tank one heck of a little explosive device.

The tank doesn't look like it has two sections, the pattern on the bottom is there either as reinforcement or as a grab point for the machinery that processes the tank. Perhaps as a grab point for spinning the cylinder as the valve is installed.

Propylene is a very weak oxidizer and perhaps that is why it has the "oxidizer" label on it.
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