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Post questions and info about combustion (flammable vapor) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:42 pm

Most valves are air piloted, not actuated
air piloted and air actuated means pretty much the same... sure here the term piloted means venting in 99% cases but technically it means it is air actuated

The Clippard components allowed me to do this
They are commonly used and produced all around the world

All this got dumped for the insanely simple current setup
Yeah, I see. It's as simple as it should be.

Well actually I am wondering what would happen if you remove the regulator? would it still work, or would it result in too lean/rich mix ?
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Unread postAuthor: chenslee » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:53 pm

Full pressure propane will not work with a blow torch venturi. The regulator is critical for consistent AF ratios, and keeping liquid fuel out of the lines. You are not the first person to suggest this.
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Unread postAuthor: chenslee » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:11 pm

I've been kicking around trying to figure out a way to get rid of the venturi, and I finally have a working bench top setup that not only has no separate venturi, but also no diffuser, metering or fan.

I've got a cart full of parts from McMaster Carr that I'm going to get to work.
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Unread postAuthor: irisher » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:12 pm

Sounds cool. Will it reduce the recharge time?
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:53 pm

bench top setup that not only has no separate venturi, but also no diffuser, metering or fan
so what meters propane?
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:29 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:
Most valves are air piloted, not actuated
air piloted and air actuated means pretty much the same... sure here the term piloted means venting in 99% cases but technically it means it is air actuated


The definition of a piloted valve is a valve which is actuated by a smaller pilot valve.

Actuation is what operates the valve.

For a real example a sprinkler valve is a piloted water actuated valve with an electrically actuated pilot valve.

The main valve is moved by water. The pilot is moved by electric current. The small electric valve pilots the main valve, so a sprinkler valve is a piloted valve.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:06 am

For a real example a sprinkler valve is a piloted water actuated valve with an electrically actuated pilot valve

The definition of a piloted valve is a valve which is actuated by a smaller pilot valve

Heh not quite. If you google 'air piloted' and 'air actuated' you'll see that the two terms are used interchangeably

http://www.controlandpower.com/catalog/ ... %20875.pdf
check page 876 - those valves are both air actuated and air piloted at the same time

The main valve is moved by water. The pilot is moved by electric current. The small electric valve pilots the main valve, so a sprinkler valve is a piloted valve.
That is a very unfortunate example you know. What if you use air instead of water ?? lol it changes to air actuated... if you really want to it might even be fart actuated :-D


actuation - the act of performing a valve function. Actuation is the point at which a valve is triggered
air-piloted directional control valve - a directional control valve that is actuated by compressed air coming from the pilot port
teh two terms are basically speaking interchangeable
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Unread postAuthor: tghhs » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:04 am

You are the coolest dude ever. Nice
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:10 am

POLAND_SPUD wrote:if you really want to it might even be fart actuated :-D


You need to figure out the pressure first, most sprinkler valves need at least 1 bar to seal.
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:12 am

ac·tu·ate verb \ˈak-chə-ˌwāt, -shə-\
ac·tu·at·edac·tu·at·ing
Definition of ACTUATE
transitive verb
1: to put into mechanical action or motion
2: to move to action


Foot switch is actuated by your foot. A manual ball valve is actuated manually.

Definition of PILOT
transitive verb
1: to act as a guide to : lead or conduct over a usually difficult course
2a : to set and conn the course of <pilot> b : to act as pilot of <pilot>
See pilot defined for English-language learners »
Examples of PILOT
He is learning how to pilot a helicopter.
He skillfully piloted the ship into port during the storm.


A piloted valve has a small valve that controls the actuation of the main valve.
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Unread postAuthor: chenslee » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:08 am

I'm with Technician on the valve issue. That's the way it was explained to me by the company reps that sell valves to my company.

The new fueling system will hopefully cut charge times down.

I don't want to give too much away, Jagerbond would shoot me. Here is what I think will work. I'll be testing this out sometime this month.

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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:14 am

chenslee wrote:Jagerbond would shoot me.


He'd certainly be spoilt for choice :D
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:24 am

transitive verb
since when actuation is a verb ?? ohh and check the definition of the term transitive verb :wink:
proving your point with a dictionary is ok as long as know how to use them and which one is suitable

Anyway I already provided the correct definition in the post above

Check what Fluid Power Education Foundation says about this (on p.17)
http://www.clippard.com/downloads/gener ... matics.pdf

In case you don't get it yet - you can't have an air actuated directional valve which isn't air piloted (and you can't have an air piloted valve which isn't air actuated). Thus the two terms can be used interchangeably

@chenslee
What the dude was referring to is something different... some ppl refer to indirect acting solenoid valves as solenoid actuated air piloted valves... but that's more of a convention than a fact. If you consider the two valves as one inseparable unit then it is ok. But it is just a simplification - in fact you've got two direct acting valves there: one solenoid actuated and the other one air actuated.
So it is more of a naming convention than a fact
I don't want to give too much away, Jagerbond would shoot me. Here is what I think will work. I'll be testing this out sometime this month
SO does it use manometric metering ? If the ID of your chamebr is so large then you might as well put a piston there that will cut out the flow as soon as X force is exerted on it.
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:15 am

Heh not quite. If you google 'air piloted' and 'air actuated' you'll see that the two terms are used interchangeably



Correction misused interchangeably. Common errors that can be found by Google abound. Their, and their are also used interchangeably on the web.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:26 am

hey don't blame google... That's what Fluid Power Education Foundation says.... one would expect them to really know their stuff :D

anyway... this
you can't have an air actuated directional valve which isn't air piloted (and you can't have an air piloted valve which isn't air actuated)

is still true
So you can use the two terms interchangeably... and they are indeed use interchangeably

I wonder why you haven't referred to my comments regarding the definitions you provided
:wink:
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Last edited by POLAND_SPUD on Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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