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The not so secretive secrets of perfect fuel

Post questions and info about combustion (flammable vapor) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: rna_duelers » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:20 pm

Ahh my high hopes werent cut down,unlike that pimp...Time to go shoot some spuds.
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Unread postAuthor: mark.f » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:04 pm

Whoa... I've been glancing over this topic for the past few days at 9:30 in the evening after I get off work, and I've always thought you guys were talking about gas stoichiometry or some such.

But now, I come here and read all those shit-slinging posts?

Let me state something very important:

Nobody knows everything.

SpudBlaster, you probably know book-loads of crap I don't. And Joannaardway probably knows book-loads more than Sgort, and rna_duelers probably knows book-loads more than joannaardway...

There are too many facts, figures, ideas, theories, and laws in life for just one person, (or even just a few people), to know. The reason we have forums, (both the internet term and the original term for forum), is so we can discuss and pool our knowledge to better the whole.

I have, personally, seen new people worried about propane blowing up their spudgun. Don't you think this post would be helpful for them? What about somebody who's considering using butane, but doesn't know how to inject into their gun? Doesn't the earlier comment about the tire valve help them? Even if it isn't the original post, that little tidbit was donated in response to it. This is the magic of a community.

So, if you've got something useful to say, continue. If not, then quit invoking argument that is nowhere inductive to learning. I don't like not being able to learn something little new everyday because too many people are arguing.

Everybody knows 4.2% propane/air... that's easy. Now, I'll add my own tidbits...

Propylene: 4.67% propylene/air

MAPP - 4.89% MAPP/air, although variations in the liquified petroleum gas, (which is still primarily propylene for making MAPP), creates differences, which can be evidenced by BurntLatkes various tests.

<B>See?</B> I just added something, (although it may be stated somewhere else), to the discussion. See how it works now? Good.
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Unread postAuthor: escape » Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:31 am

Not to try and stir up crap that as otherwised been flushed, I just need to add something.

I realise that my post was vague, but that was the point. Beginners need to start at the beginning, not at the end or halfway through, at the very basics. There is no point telling them...

"You need direct propane injection which, in turn, needs to be metered and properly constructed."

They have absolutely no clue how to do any of that stuff, so therefore the extremely vague, extremely simplistic facts need to be stated. Simplistic facts are the basis of any knowledge, and lay the foundation for any future learning. So what might seem vague or lacking in description to you/me/us may very well be the most complicated thing a person has ever read on the matter.

Once again, sorry for kicking this up again, but I just had to.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:55 am

Sigh... I can think of so many ways to tear your last post apart and point out the holes in your argument, but I wont, like gort said, some people just arent worth arguing with. I quit.
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Unread postAuthor: escape » Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:10 am

This is unbearably frustrating. So unbearable I have to say something.

Seriously, if you want to point out any faults in what I've said, go ahead. I honestly do not care. But don't cop out with some bullshit reason as to why not. I see no problem with what I've said. The most logical place to start a somebody new to anything is at the beginning.

Also, just so you know, I wasn't the first person in this thread to mention vague and lack of description in the same breath, so don't bother mentioning it.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:47 am

Now please, nobody flame me, he asked for it...

I realise that my post was vague, but that was the point. Beginners need to start at the beginning, not at the end or halfway through, at the very basics. There is no point telling them...

"You need direct propane injection which, in turn, needs to be metered and properly constructed."


You just contradicted yourself there. You stated that beginners need vague descriptions, and then you followed by stating that there is no point in describing something in vague terms. Besides that, you are completely wrong. Vague descriptions will only further confuse beginners. How about you link them to a page which details the exact process in an easy to read, detailed, understandable format instead?

They have absolutely no clue how to do any of that stuff


Then tell them exactly what must be done. Stating that "propane works best especially when metered" as you did in the statement that summarized your entire paragraph, is not going to help them progress any further.

therefore the extremely vague, extremely simplistic facts need to be stated. Simplistic facts are the basis of any knowledge, and lay the foundation for any future learning. So what might seem vague or lacking in description to you/me/us may very well be the most complicated thing a person has ever read on the matter


You seem to be missing the point here also. Although this is true, the fact remains, if you are resourceful enough to build a basic spudgun safely enough to allow you to shoot it several times using hairspray or similar without mishap, you are resourceful enough to learn the basic facts you stated about metered propane once you grow tired of less than optimal performance. There is no need for you to restate what is said on spudgun websites all over the net, as it is likely that beginners will find these websites long before they find your post on a forum.

On the other hand, detailed descriptions and pictures that depict the entire process are few and far in between. Which is why I continue to state that your original post should have been more thought out, and detailed to provide beginners with something to "copy", and allow them to learn in the process.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:37 am

Someone lock the thread or steal their keyboards.
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Unread postAuthor: joannaardway » Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:49 am

Right, now I'm going to live up to my promise and come and kick you into last week.

I will counter you both now...

Beginners do not benefit from being overwhelmed by information. If they see a huge post of information, then they will just back away, and start their own new topic - rendering this one useless.

However, not putting in enough information is equally bad. They will read it, then ask a load of questions that should have been answered in the first place. Or worse yet, they will underestimate the point of propane metering over deodorant sprays.

Assuming that a beginner has no knowledge whatsoever they need the essentials:
- The right amount of fuel - not too much or too little.
- Not using hairspray because it gunks up the chamber.
- A basic knowledge of spark numbers and positions, and perhaps a brief note about chamber fans.
- Saying that propane metering is more reliable, powerful and convient, but more complex - with a link to the appropriate burnt latke pages so that they can read up if they need to.
- C:B ratios - there are too many questions about this - answer them before they ask them.

Cover those in the simplest manner possible and you have a good basic beginner thread.

So - tell them about as much as possible, but in simple basic terms without all of the spudding jargon. In fact, explain the spudding jargon at the end for bonus marks.

Spudblaster15 - self control is the most important thing for a forum user. Knowing when it is sensible to post is a valuable skill that you are woefully lacking.

Maintain some self control and shut the hell up. You have stated your point far too many times.
If you can't put down a full, sensible and polite post to begin with, don't try and defend or add to it later.

Escape - Never ever post a post like that. People like Spudblaster will take it as a challenge. If you are frustrated - do not post. Your post will be of no value to the thread and people will see you as a jackass. If you are frustrated, then you lack the essential self control.

Do not post any form of reply like that. You do not add to the discussion.

Between you, you have wrecked this thread.
It is now a worthless piece of junk which will yield nothing of information to the newbies, because any information of value has been hidden under a pile of hormonal fuelled bullshit.

You are both teenagers, I accept that.
But, your mood swings and chemical inbalances are for you to cope with - not us.

Keep your bitching off the forums. I'll tell you this - it doesn't impress me, and it sure as hell won't impress any of the other girls you meet.

Both of you have branded yourselves as useless idiots who just exist to start arguments.

Try backing down to earn yourselves a little respect.
Hell, if one of backs down and the other just keeps on trying with the BS and you ignore them, then you've shown more maturity than you ever have before.

Now, shut up before the moderators come and rip you a new one.
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frankrede: Well then I guess it won't matter when you decide to drink bleach because your out of kool-aid.
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Unread postAuthor: sgort87 » Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:44 am

*gasp* "A moderator! What do we do now? Is he gonna rip us a new one? Oh God, Joanna was right!"

Maybe not a new one, but I'll stretch the one you got a little.

She's right guys. Just shut the crap up. I would have liked whoever didn't reopen their mouth, but since you both continued, you both annoyed me.

The best time for you to bite your tongue is when you feel you should use it the most. Remember this and you will thank me later.

Escape doesn't get it and he won't ever get it. Blaster doesn't get it that Escape won't get it and he also will never get it.

I'm not going to give either one of you any more thoughts on what I think about this topic because frankly my dear Scarlett, I don't give a damn.

And about newbs not starting right from propane... My first ever potato launcher had onboard propane metering and stun gun ignition. Not everyone starts from the very bottom.

Oh no, what's my curser doing? Is it? Oh God it IS! ... Not... the LOCK BUTTON?! Nooooooooo!
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