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The most simple and effective fuel meter ever!

Post questions and info about combustion (flammable vapor) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:40 pm

Affliction wrote:You missed the point! I don't need chamber fans this way! And adding complexity to somthing so simple is a Rube Goldberg contraption!


Your point was quite obvious, and I responded to it by stating that a chamber fan could perform the same task as displacing the spent gases with more air/fuel mix does in a much more rapid fashion.

Chamber fans also induce turbulence in the flame front(s) within the chamber, effectively increasing the burn rate, and thus power. This has been proven by numerous members, and if you stepped around your unjustified arrogance for a while, you would see the light as well.

Sometimes, simple isn't the answer. A certain degree of complexity is required for many things to be as efficient and precise as possible.

Affliction wrote:You just stepped in crap! I happen to be a liscenced mechanic with 15 years experience buddy! I know I know way more than you on carburation and fuel metering, Dumbass!


I laughed.

Affliction wrote:Carburators are not precise at all, they do no more than my simple fuel meter does.


Carburetors can be adjusted extremely precisely via needle valves which control the flow of fuel. Adjustments can be made in fractions of an inch - very precise compared to your setup. Obviously, if you did know anything about them, you would know this.

Affliction wrote:Don't think that having " so much propane pressure in my little chamber is the exact fuel mix" It's not, there are variables. Air density changes with temperature and elevation so eliminating variables such as this is a consistent way to do it.


Temperature effects the density of all gases linearly, and thusly does not have an effect on the fuel mixture given an identical meter pressure. Obviously, you know absolutely nothing about ideal gas laws, as I expected.

Elevation effects the mixture, but in this case, your own argument automatically turns against you. In a traditional meter setup, an alternative meter pressure can be determined using the equation P1*V1=P2*V2. Your setup will require you to once again guess at an appropriate setting.

You crack me up. Just wait until Joanna comes back and rips on you.
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Last edited by SpudBlaster15 on Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: c19o » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:43 pm

I think just sticking a propane torch in there and blowing around a little to mix it up is better than his idea, and cheaper also.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes, simple isn't the answer. A certain degree of complexity is required for many things to be as efficient and precise as possible.

I agree with that.
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Unread postAuthor: PVC Arsenal 17 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:55 pm

Ahh... time to press that fancy new button for the first time. Ahh...


Affliction, you phail.
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Unread postAuthor: Affliction » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:57 pm

c19o wrote:Lets Take a vote. Who all thinks affliction should be banned?
And for your meter, Cant you just screw your endcap off and stick the torch in there, maybe blowing a little to mix it all up?

You just stepped in crap!
WTF was that? It makes no sense

Edit: Personally I think you should look around here at all the cannons and meters and all that stuff before you make your own. Or at least compare it to other meters, before calling everyone elses stupid


And for your meter, Cant you just screw your endcap off and stick the torch in there, maybe blowing a little to mix it all up?

No you can't because you're not taking in oxygen then just remixing spent fuel and propane.
The more I hear you talk the more misinformed I realize you are.
and as far as banning me... Go right ahead! I don't care!
I am an abrasive presence, but that's me. :D I could give photos and specs and maybe video of something that hasn't been done here but banning me means you'll never know and I'll just move on elsewhere.
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You are a pathetic imbecile if your spudgun goes "FWOOOMP" as you fire it.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:00 pm

Been a while guys but I'm back. Moving on. I fail to understand how lugging around a camping stove is less cumbersome than a meter.

Here's what I'm gonna say bud, if you have an idea, great!, plese share it with us. But everybody hates a dickweed, so don't be that guy. I'm pretty sure that your statement about everyone who uses a meter is stupid pretty much implies that just about every admin and mod is stupid. Probably not the smartest thing to do.

In conclusion, share your idea, don't be that guy.
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Unread postAuthor: Pete Zaria » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:00 pm

Affliction wrote:LOL!! I just love it when people with such a narrow mindset get easilly offended. FYI Mr. professor, I was going to build the current "standard" in fuel meters when I first put my cannon together but I would still have to wait for the chamber to vent or use chamber fans and yes batteries for a quicker reload time. " OH LOOK AT ME! I'm COOL! LOOK AT ALL THE CRAP I GOT DUCT TAPED TO MY BAZOOKA!" Fools.....
I may have harsh words but this is because I hate all the "Rube Goldberg" contraptions in modern spudguns.
Propane is cheap and 30 seconds worth is nothing as it does 2 jobs at once; I'm still using the same brasing tank as over a year ago.
and 30 seconds is what my chamber size of 4" by 2' takes to fill. and by the odorant in propane you can smell when it's almost ready.
Properties of gasses.... Propane is heavier than air so when you inject pure propane into the chamber the tendency is to pool at the bottom unless you have a fan to mix it. By mixing at injection with air you have a well atomized mixture; Much more efficient and exactly what a carburator does. The spent charge in the chamber is warmer than the ambient air and being warmer will rise out of the endcap but being this is an enclosed space it needs air coming in near the breach to help push it out. thus this IS the most simple and effective way to fuel a spudgun. You hold the chamber across your knee with the endcap in your hand and the projectile loaded and at 20 seconds you just start to smell propane, the extra 10 seconds is just to be sure the mixture is homogenous.
The use of washers is just like tuning a carburator, once set you never have to mess with it again. I just included that information as a way to adjust the mixture but out of the box no washers are required.


1) Your system requires an end cap to be taken off between shots. My propane metered over/under gun uses a ball valve and fan for venting and does not require a cap to be opened between shots - your system will not work this way.
2) Your system will provide an ignitable propane mixture, but is not as accurate as a system with a gauge that can guarantee a perfect 4% mixture, which increases peak pressure and thus performance.
3) As someone already pointed out, a breeze blowing into the chamber or any number of unknown variables could upset the fuel/air mixture.
4) A chamber fan is still helpful for mixing/venting regardless of fuel meter setup, and will atomize the fuel mixture every bit as well as a camping burner tip.
5) Your setup cannot easily be mounted onto the gun - I prefer a gun with everything I need onboard - no accessories to lug around
6) Your system does waste gas. I don't know how you've used the same benzomatic-size canister for a year, but I go through a canister in around 150 shots (generally a few months).
7) For all of these reasons, it seems clear that your system is neither the best, cheapest, or most effecient system.
- Best would be a regulated, 3-way solenoid valve with meter pipe setup such as on "Revolver X".
- Cheapest would be a torch tip and a watch.
- Most efficient system would probably be a torch valve connected to a length of pipe with a valve on each end and a T with a gauge in the middle. This setup can be built for under $30 and guarantees a perfect mixture.

Your system provides no advantages over any of the above-listed methods, really.

I'd just like to note, dude, if you had phrased your original post as "Idea for alternate fuel meter", I would have said "hey, cool idea." But instead, you said "Mine's the best and yours are stupid", so I attacked you. If you hadn't been such an arrogant assclown, myself and several other forum members wouldn't be pissed at you. As is, you're being considered for a ban. Try being courteous next time.

Peace,
Pete Zaria.
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Last edited by Pete Zaria on Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: c19o » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:08 pm

You sound like a really stuck up person who cares only about herself. And likes to put others down just because your ideas are better or you thought of something all great, but to find out its already been done or inferior to another idea.

All this arguing of people made me forget what this topic was about.
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Unread postAuthor: Affliction » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:12 pm

paaiyan wrote:Been a while guys but I'm back. Moving on. I fail to understand how lugging around a camping stove is less cumbersome than a meter.

Umm it's not the whole stove...... just the parts that meter the gas and mix the air. baically way less bulk than all you "spudders" display in your photos.
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You are a pathetic imbecile if your spudgun goes "FWOOOMP" as you fire it.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:15 pm

Either way, your method seems to be only slightly more accurate than spray&pray. Like they said, windy day, you're screwed.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:22 pm

I find it hilarious that he came in here thinking that he came up with a revolutionary system, and now he is only responding to one out of about 20 statements since he has been humiliated by numerous people. Arrogance leads nowhere in this situation.
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Unread postAuthor: Affliction » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:24 pm

SpudBlaster15 wrote:
You crack me up. Just wait until Joanna comes back and rips on you.

just as I thought.... Occupation: High school student
LOL! LOL! LOL!
16 year old kids never cease to amaze me with their "I'm smarter than U" attitude.
sorry but I'm not nice. What you want me you kiss your asses when I have an alternate way of doing things? I've taken too much flak here for my new ideas not to be aggressive. First posts I hear are "you're full of crap" I found a way to eliminate alot of the hardware you currently use and I get crap on. Screw you guys! I'll just go back to my torrent sites and annoy them because they appreciate me.
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You are a pathetic imbecile if your spudgun goes "FWOOOMP" as you fire it.
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Unread postAuthor: pyromaniac » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:25 pm

affliction are you mental, because you've probably got about half the spudding comuntity hating you for calling all of us stupid, saying we've stepped in crap.

Technicalities: al of that crap duck tapped to a bazooka is actually hose clamped
We're not really getting offended because you were the one with the crap idea.
With the whole moving on to another forum thing, you know your just going to get rejected everywhere if you go with the same approach.

mind me asking how many spugguns have you made, and do you have any expirience at all?
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:29 pm

You were being a dick from the start automatically assuming everyone elses idea is inferior. EVEN IF your idea was better, perhaps sme people prefer more complicated devices. I have one of the most complicated ignition systems I've ever seen in my spray&pray, just because it's cool. And as for automatically assuming that you're superior to high school students, don't be an idiot. I know some high school students that could make you feel like a five-year-old child in a calculus class. You're one of those morons that assumes that inferior age means inferior intellectual capacity, well I've got news for you, you're wrong.

But back to my main point, go play in traffic.
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Unread postAuthor: boilingleadbath » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:32 pm

fork censorship.
We'll not be banning anyone for their beliefs.

(oh the irony: the censorship system tagged me!)

That said, we can disagree with them as much as we want.

1) You can get away without a chamber fan anyways. (talking captive-volume metering systems here)
However, with captive-volume metering systems, we note that muzzle velocity drops some 30% (or 25% something...)
Now, some of this is certainly do to mixture irregularities, but a large portion of it is probably due to turbulence caused by that spinning obstruction.
(turbulence leads to faster combustion, which is hypothesized to improve performance)

2) Your idea isn't new... we've had multiple people use torches to generate their flamable gasses and fuel their chambers.

3) I doubt your metering system can match the precision of a captive-volume system.

4) Your system is, at least in this fairly unrefined state, significantly slower than the modern captive-volume system.
When you have a working prototype using a gas-swapping mechanism lik that in a two cycle motor, and are getting nice rates of fire... you can tell us about the merits of a pre-mixed system.
(though we'll still have more powerful individual shots from a smaller contraption)

5) We don't appreciate your tone, as you can tell.

6) No, joanna, you got the proposed causual connection backwards...
stupid C:B ratio -> small penis
NOT small penis -> stupid C:B ratio

Perhaps affliction would like to start a company selling spudgun kits, under the pseudo-scientific notion that building a spudgun with the proper ratio promotes penile hypertrophy?
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Last edited by boilingleadbath on Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:34 pm

boilingleadbath wrote:fork censorship.
Perhaps affliction would like to start a company selling spudgun kits, under the pseudo-scientific notion that building a spudgun with the proper ratio promotes penile hypertrophy?


Well as many stupid people as there are in the world, he might actually make some money. Might I remind you of the snake oil craze?
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