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The most simple and effective fuel meter ever!

Post questions and info about combustion (flammable vapor) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, safety, and anything else relevant.
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The most simple and effective fuel meter ever!

Unread postAuthor: Affliction » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:41 pm

This will make all you "guages and valves types" look stupid!
First, buy one of these...... http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/produ ... 5048496540
it has 1/4" npt to the burner, WE can use this! next get a ball valve to thread to it and the necessary hardware to attach to the chamber.
You can adjust the fuel mixture by adding or removing washers between the air intake and the jet from the regulator.
fuelling is simple, just remove your endcap and count 20 seconds with the ball valve open of course, and start to move the cover over the chamber to screw it on at 30 seconds. you gun is now fuelled at an optimum mixture! Now close the single ball valve and fire!
No venting required for a repeat round; the regulator pushes out spent gasses as it mixes a new charge.
If you get a blue flame and a report of "PAKK" instead of "FWUUUMP" then you know it's mixed right.
If your chamber is 1/4 the size of your barrel then you just have a small penis.


THIS THREAD HAS BEEN LOCKED, AND THE FOLLOWING IS REMARKS PERTAINING TO SUCH:

This thread is being locked, and I bring this to your attention in the event you would like to contest my decision via the PMing (Private Messaging) service. While I see there has been obvious intelligent discussion, it has turned to the point that were getting members riding the coat tails of the intelligent users and the path they have paved, to grill the author of this thread. This site is from informational purposes, 'haters' having no role in this site.
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You are a pathetic imbecile if your spudgun goes "FWOOOMP" as you fire it.
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Unread postAuthor: TwitchTheAussie » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:13 am

Well this sounds pretty interesting however some pics of you doing this would be helpful. ANd this should be in the How-to section
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Unread postAuthor: willarddaniels » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:19 am

A camping stove and counting out 30 seconds... ingenious! <cough>

I'll stick with my stupid gauges and valves because they make a "PAKK" every time. But, thanks for the suggestion anyway.
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Unread postAuthor: Pete Zaria » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:11 am

@Affliction,

Don't call us stupid for building a meter more sophisticated, accurate, and efficient than your design.

A meter consisting of a torch valve connected (via hose and clamps) to a length of pipe with a valve at each end and a gauge in the middle can be constructed for less than $30. It will deliver a perfect 4% mixture every time. It doesn't waste propane to, as you put it "push out" the spent gases from the previous shot. There's no adjusting washers or counting xxx seconds.

I'm sorry to be an asshat, and I normally wouldn't, but you seemed so arrogant calling your design the most simple and effective ever, and calling everyone else's design stupid. I couldn't handle it.
Sorry, you're wrong. Your design may be inexpensive and functional, yes. But it is not the best, most simple, or most effective system. It wastes gas, takes more time, is less accurate, and apparently requires washers to calibrate the fuel/air mixture.

Peace,
Pete Zaria.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudMonster » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:04 am

Affliction, I can't stand someone who starts off their post with

1: A claim their discovery is "TEH BEST!!1!!!!1"

2: Telling everyone else that their (everyone else's) way of doing it is pure crap and subsequently, stupid.


Your means of metering propane into the chamber is a very awkward and slow way of doing it. Seeing as the chamber is open during the fueling process, what about a breeze flushing out some (or most) of the propane? Please tell me WHY waiting 30 seconds for a MAYBE optimum fuel mixture is better than waiting 5 seconds for a guaranteed optimum fuel mixture.


Don't call US stupid for making the meter that is more reliable, more accurate, easier to adjust, and quicker to operate. I'm not going to fork around with washers to try to get the optimum fuel/air mixture. I adjust the fuel/air mixture 10 times quicker by turning the knob on my regulator. Also, the "gauges and valves" version gives you much more adjustability than this system. I can fire a rich mix for effect one shot, then go right back to stoichometric for maximum power on the next shot. That's without washers mind you. I can fuel in 5 seconds and vent in 10. That's HALF the time it takes your system to do it's job.

Also, at 20 bucks, this isn't that much cheaper than a crude propane meter. Do I think the 5 or 10 dollar savings is worth the hassle? No.

I'm sticking with my gauges and valves because they are simpler, more reliable, more adjustable, easier to operate, and quicker.
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Re: The most simple and effective fuel meter ever!

Unread postAuthor: joannaardway » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:55 pm

Affliction - the metering system we use at the moment has none of the problems your design has, and it does absolutely every thing it needs to.

Most of the crummy Youtube videos you refered to elsewhere use hairspray, which is largely accepted as the worst fuel possible (by anyone in the know), with the exception of stuff that actually eats at your chamber like some oven cleaner brands.

Now proper metered cannons, of which there are few videos, are pretty loud. And some do actually sound like a rifle when used.

As what we have works perfectly 100% of the time, is quicker, cheaper in the long run than your design, and importantly safer (not least as we're not bleeding propane into the immediate atmosphere.)

I can take newbs who have no idea about what's going on. Most of the time I can survive n00bs who create "combustion vs. pneumatic topics", or "PVC vs. ABS" topics.

You are a whole new breed - a person who comes along with their own ideas, and immediately sh*ts on anyone else's ideas if they aren't approved by them in written triplicate, and hold a $1000 license that needs renewing every 3 months.

I wouldn't be distraught if this breed soon became extinct.

So, please go and learn about our ideas rather than trying to destroy them. We don't strive for however many years to create something which is completely useless.

And we're certainly not going to all slap our foreheads, go "By gum - the fellow's right", chuck out our perfectly effective propane meters and rush out to buy a propane camping stove to gas ourselves with, trip over and swear at when it takes a minute at a time to fuel.

Affliction wrote:If your chamber is 1/4 the size of your barrel then you just have a small penis.

I don't have a penis at all - what does that tell you about my C:B ratio then?
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Novacastrian: How about use whatever the heck you can get your hands on?
frankrede: Well then I guess it won't matter when you decide to drink bleach because your out of kool-aid.
...I'm sorry, but that made my year.
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Re: The most simple and effective fuel meter ever!

Unread postAuthor: willarddaniels » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:49 pm

Affliction wrote:If your chamber is 1/4 the size of your barrel then you just have a small -----.

Actually, if a female reproductive "chamber" is 1/4 the size (smaller) than a male reproductive "barrel", then one would have an exceptionally large male part... or an unusually small female part.
Is there anything this guy said that actually makes sense? ROFL

Sorry for the mental images
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Last edited by willarddaniels on Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The most simple and effective fuel meter ever!

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Unread postAuthor: joannaardway » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:56 pm

That still makes no sense.

And you seem to have thought that through too much.
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Novacastrian: How about use whatever the heck you can get your hands on?
frankrede: Well then I guess it won't matter when you decide to drink bleach because your out of kool-aid.
...I'm sorry, but that made my year.
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Unread postAuthor: willarddaniels » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:15 pm

I guess it only makes sense if you have both plumbing pieces... or the barrel is another oriffice that both males and females have. Who knows what this guy is thinking?!
Or maybe I haven't thought it through enough. No more time from me will be spent on it, I am tired of flaming him for the day.
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Unread postAuthor: pyromaniac » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:27 pm

Stop this discussion of bad things and read the rules

Do not post pornographic images or links to pornographic websites. Doing so will result in an immediate account ban.

may not be images or links but its talking about it. Not all of us are old enough for those talks.
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Unread postAuthor: sjog » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:03 pm

The only AFFLICTION this guy has is in the brain department.
Go pet your little doggie YO-YO then go drink a Molsons, if your old enough.
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Unread postAuthor: Affliction » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:55 pm

Pete Zaria wrote:@Affliction,

Don't call us stupid for building a meter more sophisticated, accurate, and efficient than your design.

A meter consisting of a torch valve connected (via hose and clamps) to a length of pipe with a valve at each end and a gauge in the middle can be constructed for less than $30. It will deliver a perfect 4% mixture every time. It doesn't waste propane to, as you put it "push out" the spent gases from the previous shot. There's no adjusting washers or counting xxx seconds.

I'm sorry to be an asshat, and I normally wouldn't, but you seemed so arrogant calling your design the most simple and effective ever, and calling everyone else's design stupid. I couldn't handle it.
Sorry, you're wrong. Your design may be inexpensive and functional, yes. But it is not the best, most simple, or most effective system. It wastes gas, takes more time, is less accurate, and apparently requires washers to calibrate the fuel/air mixture.


LOL!! I just love it when people with such a narrow mindset get easilly offended. FYI Mr. professor, I was going to build the current "standard" in fuel meters when I first put my cannon together but I would still have to wait for the chamber to vent or use chamber fans and yes batteries for a quicker reload time. " OH LOOK AT ME! I'm COOL! LOOK AT ALL THE CRAP I GOT DUCT TAPED TO MY BAZOOKA!" Fools.....
I may have harsh words but this is because I hate all the "Rube Goldberg" contraptions in modern spudguns.
Propane is cheap and 30 seconds worth is nothing as it does 2 jobs at once; I'm still using the same brasing tank as over a year ago.
and 30 seconds is what my chamber size of 4" by 2' takes to fill. and by the odorant in propane you can smell when it's almost ready.
Properties of gasses.... Propane is heavier than air so when you inject pure propane into the chamber the tendency is to pool at the bottom unless you have a fan to mix it. By mixing at injection with air you have a well atomized mixture; Much more efficient and exactly what a carburator does. The spent charge in the chamber is warmer than the ambient air and being warmer will rise out of the endcap but being this is an enclosed space it needs air coming in near the breach to help push it out. thus this IS the most simple and effective way to fuel a spudgun. You hold the chamber across your knee with the endcap in your hand and the projectile loaded and at 20 seconds you just start to smell propane, the extra 10 seconds is just to be sure the mixture is homogenous.
The use of washers is just like tuning a carburator, once set you never have to mess with it again. I just included that information as a way to adjust the mixture but out of the box no washers are required.
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You are a pathetic imbecile if your spudgun goes "FWOOOMP" as you fire it.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:52 pm

You really irritate me. You are the type of person who would attempt to change the shape of the wheel to a square, because circles "suck".

Affliction wrote:LOL!! I just love it when people with such a narrow mindset get easilly offended.


Narrow mindset? Just because he does not want to use your time consuming, cumbersome, inaccurate system doesn't mean he has a narrow mind.

Affliction wrote: FYI Mr. professor, I was going to build the current "standard" in fuel meters when I first put my cannon together but I would still have to wait for the chamber to vent or use chamber fans and yes batteries for a quicker reload time. " OH LOOK AT ME! I'm COOL! LOOK AT ALL THE CRAP I GOT DUCT TAPED TO MY BAZOOKA!" Fools.....
I may have harsh words but this is because I hate all the "Rube Goldberg" contraptions in modern spudguns.


Take a look at any of the "good" combustions on this site. You will see that while utilizing electronics and highly accurate fuel meters, they look very good, are very reliable, and considerably more convenient than your approach.

Affliction wrote:Propane is cheap and 30 seconds worth is nothing as it does 2 jobs at once; I'm still using the same brasing tank as over a year ago.
and 30 seconds is what my chamber size of 4" by 2' takes to fill. and by the odorant in propane you can smell when it's almost ready.


You still waste considerably more propane than you would using a proper meter setup, and 30 seconds is a very long fueling duration. I can fuel my MAPP gun in under 5 seconds. Sgort87 was able to fire 5 times in 45 seconds using a similar setup.

Affliction wrote:Properties of gasses.... Propane is heavier than air so when you inject pure propane into the chamber the tendency is to pool at the bottom unless you have a fan to mix it.


Enthalpy suggests otherwise. Two gases, regardless of density, left undisturbed in a container, would eventually mix due to their high enthalpy.

Affliction wrote:By mixing at injection with air you have a well atomized mixture; Much more efficient and exactly what a carburator does. The spent charge in the chamber is warmer than the ambient air and being warmer will rise out of the endcap but being this is an enclosed space it needs air coming in near the breach to help push it out.


This can be accomplished in less than half the time, with much greater efficiency and much more accurately using a proper meter setup, and a chamber fan.
You fail to realize that while the mixing head on the torch does mix the air and fuel, it is almost impossible to get it to inject the *proper* amount of fuel. It is just a slight step up from the 'spray n' pray' method, as you have no control over your fuel mixture, aside from a ballpark estimate.

Affliction wrote:thus this IS the most simple and effective way to fuel a spudgun.


Most simple? No, the simplest method involves an aerosol can and an index finger. Most effective? No, because it is not controlled properly, as opposed to a traditional meter.

Affliction wrote:You hold the chamber across your knee with the endcap in your hand and the projectile loaded and at 20 seconds you just start to smell propane, the extra 10 seconds is just to be sure the mixture is homogenous.


How about you flip open a ball valve at the end of your chamber, flip on the fan switch, open your breech and load in the projectile, close the breech, open the first ball valve on your meter, close it, close the chamber ball valve, then open your second meter ball valve, and fire, all within 15 seconds?

Affliction wrote:The use of washers is just like tuning a carburator, once set you never have to mess with it again. I just included that information as a way to adjust the mixture but out of the box no washers are required.


Tuning a carburetor is much more precise, and the settings can vary considerably, depending upon the setup and weather conditions. This setup shouldn't require tuning, but getting the proper mixture in the first place will be very time consuming, if not impossible, considering your imprecise method of fuel metering.

:clown:
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Unread postAuthor: Affliction » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:21 pm

SpudBlaster15 wrote:You really irritate me. You are the type of person who would attempt to change the shape of the wheel to a square, because circles "suck".

Affliction wrote:]thus this IS the most simple and effective way to fuel a spudgun.


Most simple? No, the simplest method involves an aerosol can and an index finger. Most effective? No, because it is not controlled properly, as opposed to a traditional meter.

Affliction wrote:You hold the chamber across your knee with the endcap in your hand and the projectile loaded and at 20 seconds you just start to smell propane, the extra 10 seconds is just to be sure the mixture is homogenous.


How about you flip open a ball valve at the end of your chamber, flip on the fan switch, open your breech and load in the projectile, close the breech, open the first ball valve on your meter, close it, close the chamber ball valve, then open your second meter ball valve, and fire, all within 15 seconds?


:clown:

You missed the point! I don't need chamber fans this way!
And adding complexity to somthing so simple is a Rube Goldberg contraption!
Affliction wrote:The use of washers is just like tuning a carburator, once set you never have to mess with it again. I just included that information as a way to adjust the mixture but out of the box no washers are required.


Tuning a carburetor is much more precise, and the settings can vary considerably, depending upon the setup and weather conditions. This setup shouldn't require tuning, but getting the proper mixture in the first place will be very time consuming, if not impossible, considering your imprecise method of fuel metering.


You just stepped in crap! I happen to be a liscenced mechanic with 15 years experience buddy! I know I know way more than you on carburation and fuel metering, Dumbass! Carburators are not precise at all, they do no more than my simple fuel meter does.
I can run a car with no fuel in the tank with just simply putting the acetylene torch in the air intake. Fuel mixture is my specialty as I've repaired propane powered cars in the past. Don't think that having " so much propane pressure in my little chamber is the exact fuel mix" It's not, there are variables. Air density changes with temperature and elevation so eliminating variables such as this is a consistent way to do it.
I love irritating asshats and I will continue to do so.
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You are a pathetic imbecile if your spudgun goes "FWOOOMP" as you fire it.
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Unread postAuthor: c19o » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:37 pm

Lets Take a vote. Who all thinks affliction should be banned?
And for your meter, Cant you just screw your endcap off and stick the torch in there, maybe blowing a little to mix it all up?

You just stepped in crap!
WTF was that? It makes no sense

Edit: Personally I think you should look around here at all the cannons and meters and all that stuff before you make your own. Or at least compare it to other meters, before calling everyone elses stupid
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Last edited by c19o on Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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