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Baking Soda and Vinegar?

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Baking Soda and Vinegar?

Unread postAuthor: joemama » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:13 pm

you could make a canonn that is a combustion phnomic and vinigar powerd lol, you can modify the valves into what ever u want , the funnle would be for poring down vinigar u would screw off the cap firs and put baking sodain . i recomend this for new people in spud guning it has a little of it all, i cant say it has the best ranger or power but it dose have it all
you could also add this if u wanted to
joe

i am not liable for anything you do with this
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Unread postAuthor: saladtossser » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:10 pm

how bout this?
HCl + Mg + Mn + H2O2 + ignition source?
not insulting ur idea, this will work too.

also try mentos and pepsi(coke rocks), same effect i think

i'll let some1 else moan about ur spelling and rubber parts
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Unread postAuthor: boilingleadbath » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:28 pm

Ok, I went through the bother of figuring out the specifics of the baking soda-vinigar issue:
To pressurize a 3 liter chamber (reasonable) to 100 PSI, you will require 21 liters of CO<sub>2</sub>. This is 41.6g, or .945 moles. To produce .945 moles of CO<sub>2</sub> reguires .945 moles of sodium bicarbonate and .945 moles of acetic acid; that's about 79.4g and 56.7g (1.13 liters with the 5% stuff you'll get at china*mart) respectivly.
At about .5$ per shot, you may want to reconsider.
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Unread postAuthor: benstern » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:11 pm

Plus, after each shot that you fire, you would have to clean out your chamber.
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Unread postAuthor: PCGUY » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:33 pm

May be interesting to play around with but not very practical.
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:31 pm

QUOTE: Ok, I went through the bother of figuring out the specifics of the baking soda-vinigar issue:
To pressurize a 3 liter chamber (reasonable) to 100 PSI, you will require 21 liters of CO2. This is 41.6g, or .945 moles. To produce .945 moles of CO2 reguires .945 moles of sodium bicarbonate and .945 moles of acetic acid; that's about 79.4g and 56.7g (1.13 liters with the 5% stuff you'll get at china*mart) respectivly.
At about .5$ per shot, you may want to reconsider.

What did he say??????

Would you mind translateing that to stupid so i can understand it.
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Unread postAuthor: sgort87 » Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:04 am

Translated to stupid:

He says you gotta put a crap load of sciency junk in the chamber to get it to go at the pressure wanted and costs too much money to bother with.
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Unread postAuthor: boilingleadbath » Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:50 am

Ok, I went through the bother of figuring out the specifics of the baking soda-vinigar issue:
(I'm not simplifing that!)

To pressurize a 3 liter chamber (reasonable) to 100 PSI, you will require 21 liters of CO2. This is 41.6g, or .945 moles.
(I calculated this before we learned gas laws... it turns out that there's a simpler way to do this. Anyway, as you might remember, a mole is a certain amount of matter - 6.02 x 10^23 molecules. It's the quantity of matter at which the AMU = the mass of the sample in grams.)

To produce .945 moles of CO2 reguires .945 moles of sodium bicarbonate and .945 moles of acetic acid;
(the reaction is "1 baking soda + 1 vinigar -> 1 CO2 + 1 H2O)

that's about 79.4g and 56.7g (1.13 liters with the 5% stuff you'll get at china*mart) respectivly.
(79.4g baking soda, 56.7g acetic acid. However, acetic acid is sold as a solution (typicaly) and measured by volume, so I went and estimated the amount of commercial vinigar needed)

At about .5$ per shot, you may want to reconsider.
(Those chemicals end up costing .5$)
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Unread postAuthor: tbillion » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:29 am

@boiling lead bath : How do you know for a fact that it takes 21L to charge the bottle to 100psi is there some formula for that? a formula that will allow you to figure what psi a given volume will charge a given container to?

I have a 5L grease jug, and i need to charge it to 5psi how would i figure in the amount of gas that i would need to charge the container?

You also refer to a gas law, what gas law?

Thanks in advance for a reply!

oh, further more forgot part 2 to my response. what about changing the acid from acetic to sulfuric or muratic? would that allow for less acid and more co2 creation? also i know that if you use muratic acid and tin foil you create an enormous exothermic reaction that creates enormous amounts of pressure, perhaps that would pressure this device better?
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Last edited by tbillion on Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postAuthor: tbillion » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:33 am

oh, further more forgot part 2 to my response. what about changing the acid from acetic to sulfuric or muratic? would that allow for less acid and more co2 creation? also i know that if you use muratic acid and tin foil you create an enormous exothermic reaction that creates enormous amounts of pressure, perhaps that would pressure this device better?
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Unread postAuthor: inonickname » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:01 am

tbillion wrote:@boiling lead bath : How do you know for a fact that it takes 21L to charge the bottle to 100psi is there some formula for that? a formula that will allow you to figure what psi a given volume will charge a given container to?

I have a 5L grease jug, and i need to charge it to 5psi how would i figure in the amount of gas that i would need to charge the container?

You also refer to a gas law, what gas law?

Thanks in advance for a reply!


P1V1=P2V2.

There aren't many gas laws. You have Boyle's, Charles's, Lussac's and Avogadro's. Combinations of these gives you combined and ideal laws.

For the 5L grease jug (5L is volume, 1.36 is the number of atmospheres. !4.7 is atmospheric, so increasing by 5 will give about 20. 20/4,7= 1.36)

5L*1.36=6.8L total

You already had 5L, so you basically need to add 1.8L.

Forgive me if I messed that up, it's midnight and I'm tired.

also i know that if you use muratic acid and tin foil you create an enormous exothermic reaction that creates enormous amounts of pressure, perhaps that would pressure this device better?


Not really a good idea, or worthwhile. It wouldn't be cheap or easy to use, especially in the long run. Compressed air is much cheaper, safer and more practical. You wont achieve more pressure with HCl + Al either.

The exothermic part is also a problem- heat is going to soften polymer chambers, and weaken them. That's part of the reason these stupid bombs kids make work. Alternatively, you have metal chambers, which will react with strong acids.

Add on the HCl spray out of the muzzle, constant seal destruction, and issues of dealing with concentrated acid before every shot makes it quite impractical.
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:10 am

Instead of trying to pour a powder through a valve and pour vinegar through a valve, then seal it quickly, You could simply take the design from a soda acid extinguisher where the acid is kept in a cup above the bicarb. The extinguisher is inverted to mix the contents when ready for use.

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Unread postAuthor: tbillion » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:25 am

For the 5L grease jug (5L is volume, 1.36 is the number of atmospheres. !4.7 is atmospheric, so increasing by 5 will give about 20. 20/4,7= 1.36)


1.36 is the number of atmospheres in the jug? what is an atmosphere 4.7 is atmospheric pressure? increasing the volume to place in the jug by 5 i get because i want 5 psi. where did the 1.36 and the 4.7 come from is where i am lost at this point. gases is new science to me.

the idea to place the soda in a vial or cam in the screw on lid is great that is the answer to another great question I had.

Sulphuric acid is real cheap, in fact in concentrations of 35% or more it can be found in old discarded car batteries which where i am are all over the place, and can be acquired for free. and 50ft of tin foil is only $1USD not bad if you think about how little you would need. ti get rid of the spray you talk of you would probably have to design a whole new gun. one that had a gas generation chamber then a dryer/accumulator and a valve that would only allow gas pressure to leave, thus leaving you with a netralize-able and non hazardous waste.

my application is not for a spud gun but the inthusiasts here seem to have the knowledge i am looking for ... ps. I fudged on the container volume it is 5 Gallons USD or 18.9 L
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:13 pm

One item to consider when working with gas laws and chemical reactions to generate CO2. CO2 dissolves into water so some of your gas production under pressure will be lost into the water.
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Unread postAuthor: tbillion » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:17 pm

What if you use a desiccant to absorb the water? say like silica gel?
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