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How-to: paintball “tactical” anti-tank weapon.

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Unread postAuthor: Recruit » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:45 am

judgment_arms I was not saying you dont contribute or you mostly troll or anything.

I was congratulating you on being helpful, unlike most of the people who dont ever contribute anythig
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Unread postAuthor: AmYisroelChai » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:58 am

On natural camo: I made my own guilly suit but after conferring with a friend of mind who led a sniper unit he game me a very effective tip on camo:

“ Glue netting to your fatigues. This way you can easily insert natural camo from the surrounding foliage. Camo doesn’t help if it doesn’t match your surroundings. “
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Unread postAuthor: AmYisroelChai » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:04 am

Goathunter: Kudos on the great feedback.

Do you have any good links to make 12/24 rd PB cartridges?

Edit:
judgement_arms:

First take a look at my LAW,
that’s how NOT to do it. It’s too heavy, to slow, and overly complicated. I was going for looks, which is also important as I’ll explain later, and power, power is not necessary as most field limit the muzzle velocity to less than 300FPS.

Edit: I have a question on the BEC Jr:
Link here: http://www.pukindogspaintball.com/cannons/BECC2.htm

When you slide the floating barrel back to meet the cartridge is there anything to help form a seal between the floating barrel and the cartridge? Or does PVC on PVC seal enough not to hinder performance?

If I am completely off and the floating barrel comes over the cartridge like a sleeve then same question?

Thankx
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:12 pm

Okay first I need to make a clarification:
judgment_arms wrote:Let us now focus on the breach:
In order to be “tactical” our cannon must have a high ROF.
In order to achieve a high rate of fire we will use cartridges made from a piece of pipe of the same caliber as the barrel and at least seven inches long. You may consider breaches such as these:
Vern1’s paintball cannon
the BECC


Vern1’s paintball cannon may not use cartridges, at first glance I thought it did because of the huge gap when the breach is opened, but he never mentioned cartridges. But a breach like this, but modified to except a cartridge, would be more than suitable. Actually this type of breach would work too, it would not be quite as fast as a cartridge gun, but it’s still much faster than muzzle loading.

Goathunter, I disagree with you on firing ranges, not all tanks are well, built like a tank, some of the ones I’ve seen are nothing more than canvas over a steel frame, at close ranges a NERF rocket may pierce through armor of said design. I prefer long ranges that keep you, the grenadier out of fire, although 200 yards is a bit of a stretch there’s no reason that a 100yard kill on a tank is impossible. Have you tried putting a spin on the round as the leave the barrel? I do and I have yet to see a NEF rocket hook. Today’s a windy day after I get my chores done I may well go out side and do some target practice, to see how wrong I am.
Anyway, I never thought about the Schrader getting clogged with dirt, I did think of using the female quick-connect on the gun, but then the bulk tank would just empty when you disconnected it, I guess you could put a ball-vale in there to keep that from happening.

Although a rifle style LAW would draw less attention, it limits your barrel length more then the over-the-should style would. That’s why I chose that, in my book “the bigger, well still being practical, the better”.

I didn’t know multi-ball rounds were still aloud, nor smoke rounds fro the matter.

You said “Most of the time a tank crew will assume that I am another infantryman and not give me the time of day” you see, I want the tank crew to know I’m an anti-tank gunner, so that they focus al their attention on me instead of my teammates, for the brief second that their still in the game. After a few kill tank crews will start to cut and run so that they aren’t taken out (he who runs away will live to fight another day.). The whole point is to get to were you can force a tank to leave/stay away from an area simply by being there.

goathunter wrote:Don't bother with pre-loaded barrels.

That was for basically a single shot weapon along the lines of the M72 LAW for an infantryman to carry. Not as a grenadier’s weapon.

goathunter wrote:build cartridges instead,more labor intensive but you'll thank yourself in the long run.


Yes cartridges are a must, if you have a spotter he can reload the cannon for you well you still have the gun shouldered.

Do you use a spotter, or are you part of a squad, or a lone wolf?

I recommend you not travel with a squad, but still have a spotter. You support not one squad, but rather hunt down the tanks as a preemptive strike. Or move with a tank column to provide support.

Why not move with a squad?
By picking up a big gun you move your self up the priority list, well it sounds like a good idea to have a whole squad to back you up, when those other guy are with you they could vary well take a round, tank or otherwise, that was meant for you. Your job is to protect them from tanks, and since it’s inevitable that a tank will fire a round in your direction, you don’t want a bunch of guys standing around you.
Another good reason not to move with a squad is that they may not be as skilled as you, making more noise and giving away your location at an inopportune time, such as when you trying to sneak around a large column of troops to get a clean shot at a tank, although you want to be seen when attacking you must also be invisible when not. (I call it the “judgment day” principle, only seen once it’s too late. By the way, it has nothing to do with my screen name.). The first few games you play will be hard, but don’t let it show, but once you get a reputation it’ll be your strongest weapon.

By the way, I Googled it, and it’s the MXK. How exactly does it load, I know it breach loaded, but that about all the information I got.


AmYisroelChai, buy natural camouflage, meant things like bushes and tall grass, not guile suits.
Unfortunately I’ve haven’t seen the BEEC jr. until you posted a link to it. give me a few minutes to study it and I’ll give you an educated guess. But I know on the BECC that it’s just the seal of PVC on PVC.

Edit:
Both the BECC and the BECC jr. have to couplers, one at the breach and one on the barrel, that the case goes in. You slide the barrel forwards insert a case into the rear coupler and slide the barrel back and lock it. It apparently provides enough of a seal to function, as in the two videos of the BECC I did not see Co2 spraying out around the breach.
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Last edited by judgment_arms on Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: Scope » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:16 pm

You mean the MKX?? by blackpoint and jcs.... i actauly have bought a few things from there site... i was compelled to buy one but was turned off by the shear price!
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Unread postAuthor: goathunter » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:14 pm

Okay time to write another long response.
AmYisroelchai:Thank you,I hope it was helpful.The cartridges are my homemade design I'll post a tutorial(don't want to hijack judgements thread)
And to answer your other Q. Pvc on Pvc seals do work, they have to be tight and have couplers on each end.I built a cartridge system like the BECC only on a sniper type gun.I was stupid and took it apart before I took pictures. Doh!

"Judgement:Goathunter, I disagree with you on firing ranges, not all tanks are well, built like a tank, some of the ones I’ve seen are nothing more than canvas over a steel frame, at close ranges a NERF rocket may pierce through armor of said design."

They won't pierce,All cannons are required to stay under 230fps.The mass of a football won't allow the ball to go through fabric.I saw a guy get shot in the back of the head point blank(MKX launcher got him).
He wasn't even dazed.Albeit a bit mad at the kid who shot him!So don't worry about penetration or hurting someone.They wouldn't use nerfs if they stood a risk of causing harm.

" I prefer long ranges that keep you, the grenadier out of fire, although 200 yards is a bit of a stretch there’s no reason that a 100yard kill on a tank is impossible. Have you tried putting a spin on the round as the leave the barrel? I do and I have yet to see a NEF rocket hook."

Okay,first off 200yds is impossible,you are shooting a moving target.100 yds.,possible but a slim chance. Switch the yds. to feet and you have an entirely possible situation.Remember, Adrenaline,looking through a paintball mask,wind,target acquisition,and enemy fire are all odds against you.Spinning works if sufficient power is available,unfortunetly the 230 fps rule makes this hard to do.Spinning a finned object works against you the slower you go.And the ball hooking,this mainly happens at the end of a scenario game.The horrible flight path can be attributed to; that for 2 days these nerfs have been shot multiple times out of different guns.The ware and tear gets to them.

On barrel lengths,Sure bigger is better when agility and manumaneuverabilityof no concern.I've found that within an inch or 2 of a 20" barrel length is your magic number. Accuracy doesn't suffer and neither does manuverability.Yes you can shot grapeshot and smoke.Ammo depends on what field you play at.

"I want the tank crew to know I’m an anti-tank gunner, so that they focus al their attention on me instead of my teammates, for the brief second that their still in the game. After a few kill tank crews will start to cut and run so that they aren’t taken out (he who runs away will live to fight another day.). The whole point is to get to were you can force a tank to leave/stay away from an area simply by being there."

Sure this tactic works when your team is the only one on the field.Think instead on the big picture.While your away on a mission with your team.You leave a tank unshot.That tank then proceeds to roll up to your base and blow it.All this happened because you assumed that another would shoot the tank.Never leave an enemy just to let him shoot you in the back.When the oppurtunity arrives take the kill.In some games you gain points for tank kills.Tanks won't cut and run, they call for backup, then your in deep KimChee.It is always better to bait a tank in and take them out 1 by 1.I have shot out 3 tanks in a row before and it is difficult.So don't give the tankers a chance to group up.
"Do you use a spotter, or are you part of a squad, or a lone wolf?

I recommend you not travel with a squad, but still have a spotter. You support not one squad, but rather hunt down the tanks as a preemptive strike. Or move with a tank column to provide support.

Why not move with a squad?
By picking up a big gun you move your self up the priority list, well it sounds like a good idea to have a whole squad to back you up, when those other guy are with you they could vary well take a round, tank or otherwise, that was meant for you. Your job is to protect them from tanks, and since it’s inevitable that a tank will fire a round in your direction, you don’t want a bunch of guys standing around you."

I am all 3.I run with my best friend and he covers me and plays the monkey when time comes to bait a tank.When he gets shot I go aggresive. Running with a tank can be the best thing you ever do.Tankers love tank battles and when they do battle they leave themselves open to attack from ground troops.
Well although your ideas on moving with a squad work theoretically,They don't play out in real life.First off if you go with a squad. They know better than to bunch up.Second,When that many targets represent themselves to a tank gunner it makes your job easy.The gunner is busy trying to shoot the guys scattering.This is were the tankers "god complex" comes in.In a feeling of invincibility they will jump from target to target.Rarely will the gunner hit someone before you attack.Third,having a squad protects you from enemy ground troops.They protect you and you protect them.

Judgement the best I can say is go out there and put your tactics to work.This stuff is my experience.What works for me may not work for you and vice versa.Go out there and play.Who knows we may end up on seeing eachother on the field someday.

MKX:Think single shot shotgun.Open the breech, insert a nerf,close breech,fire.It is that simple no cartridges.
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:45 am

“looking through a paintball mask”-goathunter

First I’d like to thank you; the above quote reminded me that I’ll be wearing a mask. I spent a good hour last night making a sight for my LAW (same one as in my original How-to post) and after I lashed it on (couldn’t find anything other than twine…) I released that it sticks out to far. But if I had my mask on it wouldn’t.

"I want the tank crew to know I’m an anti-tank gunner, so that they focus al their attention on me instead of my teammates, for the brief second that their still in the game. After a few kill tank crews will start to cut and run so that they aren’t taken out (he who runs away will live to fight another day.). The whole point is to get to were you can force a tank to leave/stay away from an area simply by being there."-judgment_arms

What I meant by that, the last sentence in particular, is when you run out of ammo you’re still effective, I would never pass up an opportunity for a kill.


I think my problem is I’m underestimating the average paintball player, seeing how the only person I know that has played paintball at a field and in official games is not what I’d call skilled, he makes more noise than a horse in full gallop when he moves through the woods.

“Judgement the best I can say is go out there and put your tactics to work.This stuff is my experience.What works for me may not work for you and vice versa.Go out there and play.Who knows we may end up on seeing eachother on the field someday.”-goathunter

Provided I ever get a chance, I will put my tactics to work, but first I’ve got to get a combat worthy arm to use, that may be my next project.
I have a slightly unorthodox way of doing a lot of things what works for 90% of people doesn’t work for me.

Were do you live Goathunter? Just the state, don’t need zip code or nothing. Do you plan on going to D-day, or Invasion of Normandy? (thanks Scope for telling me about that, it’s closer than D-day)

Almost forgot, Thanks goathunter, I found your posts quite informative. Another view is always important; you’ve helped me, and anybody else that reads this thread by providing two different strategies, as you said” what works for one doesn’t work for all”.


One last thing, I know mortar have to be fired at a 45 degree angle or more, but can a mortar be man portable? A thought hit me last night: if you hade a chamber big enough so that the cannon could function as a mortar but had a ball-valve, same diameter as the chamber, in it so that part of the chamber could be cut off and what’s left be just big enough for the cannon to function as a LAW and meet the 230FPS limit. Goathunter, you’ve got experience with the judges, would they approve this?
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Unread postAuthor: goathunter » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:01 am

Judgement,
To answer your questions, I live in SC.Unfortunetly, I don't go to any games so far out like D-Day.I stick to the SC and NC stuff.Enough to keep me busy trying to pay for it all.
My friend uses his launcher as a mortar. You just need a 2" barrel to drop grenades down.When the oppurtunity arrives we hole up in a building. I load grenades while he fills the chamber. Then rain pain down on people.It is a lot of fun.So far I haven't had a Ref get mad at me.The only thing that they want to see is that you don't aim at people directly.Good way to get somebody hurt.
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:46 am

South Carolina, eh, you wouldn’t happen to now of a field in N.C. called Black River?

What kind of grenades fit down a 2 inch barrel, do you use Pod Rockets or something else? I know it’s not the Squad Buster.
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Unread postAuthor: goathunter » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:37 pm

That name rings a bell but no I've never been there.Is it in the mountains or coast?
Homemades from 1/4" latex tubing and the bouncing betty's(same thing)
I'm writing a tutorial this evening on cartridges and my grenade cartridges are featured.
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Unread postAuthor: iPaintball » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:19 pm

If you were denoting pipe diameter in caliber, it would be 150 cal. for 1.5" not 1.50 cal. That doesn't even make sense. When people say "fifty cal" they mean .50". So if you say "one point five cal" it's like saying .15"
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Unread postAuthor: goathunter » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:24 pm

Da Pneu kid, what are you talking about? Is this in the right section?
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:36 pm

Welllll… Da Pneu Kid, I see what you’re saying. And to be honest, I feel retarded for putting that “.” there…
I guess my train of thought was caliber = inches, i.e. .50 inches/.50cal, 2.00 inches/2.00cal. Well that, and lately I’ve had too many irons in the fire and not getting enough sleep (dumb cats keep me awake, anybody up for Chinese food?) and as such I’ve bean having trouble thinking.
Under normal conditions I wouldn’t have put the “.” in there… give me a minute and I’ll fix that.
Edit:
I think I fixed it, did I miss any?
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:41 am

Cheeseus Crust!!! talk about long posts, anyways nice HOW TO but I disagree on some things. the grenadier doesn't have to be intimidating, intimidation is for tanks, a grenadier never needs to be seen and the tank never needs to know what hit them (well they do need to know that they have been shot and that's it) in fact I heard claymore are better than LAWs for a reason, and secondly I disagree on Schrader, tire chucks are a pain when reloading, but if you got a sleeve valve and a quick connect is a winning combo.

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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:21 pm

Tanks intimidating?!?! Bah! All is in a tank is a big, slow moving target. With a top speed of only 5mph tanks not what id consider “intimidating”, unless they’re armed with auto-cannons and fully automatic small arms, which the later is illegal for some odd reason…
Now, after doing a little research, I’m starting to lean towards the “ghost” style: never seen, period, but you presence should be more than known. But intimidation is still the name of the game, if the enemy never knows were your at he’ll try to reinforce all his flanks, but at the same time none of his flanks will be particularly strong. To quote Sun Tzu:
For should the enemy strengthen his van, he will weaken his rear; should he strengthen his rear, he will weaken his van; should he strengthen his left, he will weaken his right; should he strengthen his right, he will weaken his left. If he sends reinforcements everywhere, he will everywhere be weak.
-Sun Tzu VI: 17

Claymores, Bushmasters (not talkin’ about the chain-gun here), and any other form of Off-Route Mines are nice, but only work if you know were a tank’s going to be, or are trying to deny land to the enemy.
But if you, or the enemy, use Blitzkrieg then your better off with a man-portable/crew-serve weapons for anti-tank as, ideally, you’ll never be in the same place twice, the only land you'll hold is the homeland around your HQ, which should be hard for your team to get through, that way it’s impossible for the enemy.
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