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Enlightening Hybrid Concept!

Post questions and info about hybrid (compressed gas with fuel) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, build types, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Enlightening Hybrid Concept!

Unread postAuthor: THUNDERLORD » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:37 am

So I posted an idea inColty's Great Thread here But didn't explain it's layout very well and not many spudders will read it or reply on it probably.

"Knee bone connected to the leg bone"...and the...:

My idea is the hybrid chamber is pressurized, fueled to fire.
There is a photocell switch with polycarbonate lens facing inside the chamber.

The photocell closes a switch to turn on a solenoid on the magazine which moves it forward,(edit: or rearward (?)) blocking the opening ,

There's a more traditional contact switch mounted on the magazine's moving parts (and outside barrel) that closes to turn on the spark.

Series with those is the push button trigger switch. (one flash per press, with a simple mechanical light blocker attached)(edit: not series electrically, series by mechanical light blocker and initial LED flash impulse)...

I was trying to figure if the push button trigger could simply flash (On ,off,on,off...) an LED light into the photocell controlling the magazine movement (magazine closes ignition switch connected to it).
While each flash from ignition causes the cycle to repeat.

I arrived at: the trigger will normally block the photocell (mechanical blinder), but on first pull give a single flash until released and pressed again.

It's a little confusing to figure...But the first artificial flash(LED) gets it going, fuel ignition flash keeps it going unless the trigger is released blocking all light. (edit:to photocell)

It needs another switch, (pressure switch near muzzle to activate a electronic check valve in chamber) to vent(?)
Or is that necessary?

It's a late night design, wondering on feedback, thoughts, criticism too...Thanks in advance... Errr, I mean your welcome for the concept in advance too :P :D 8)
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:52 am

IMHO it doesn't really matter how you trigger the gun... that's not such a big deal really...

your idea seems to be overly complicated but there is no reason for it to be like that... I mean... it would make sense if it really performed better but I don't think it will

I think that you should concentrate on fuelling and venting first...
for fuelling you'd only need a 3 way valve and a reg... venting could be done with a piston attached to an air cylinder.. the piston would purge CO2 from the chamber after each shot (of course the movement of the piston could be also utilized to load ammo or rotate rotary mag...)
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Unread postAuthor: THUNDERLORD » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:28 am

IMHO it doesn't really matter how you trigger the gun... that's not such a big deal really...
...I think that you should concentrate on fuelling and venting first...
for fuelling you'd only need a 3 way valve and a reg... venting could be done with a piston attached to an air cylinder....


The triggering is that way, because for a long time I've been trying to figure ways to have a non-pressure controlled (push button) semi/full auto hybrid trigger.

This concept is not purely push button, since it uses a mechanical light blocker combined,
But it's pretty close, And not pressure controlled.

I made no mention of fueling, which would probably be done through (of course) two electronic valves for this design, the fuel, then the air/ oxydizer.

As far as venting, not sure if this design would need it since there's no spring (such as a blow-forward bolt would have on a hybrid)...which presents a problem of leakage,
I sort of visualized the shot being snug enough to contain pressure.

But based on thoughts on your critisizm, I realize it might defeat the purpose of having a pressured up chamber and triggering by push button... :x

But the triggering has an advantage of proper timing since the light controlled switch activates a solenoid moving the magazine and switch on magazine triggers ignition, seems the chamber would have time to fill (fuel up) during that motion...

It's a late night idea and I'm far from a Hybrid, since I have a pneumatic project...Dang insomnia...months of stress...the current economy is a waste of life... :evil:

I'll probably work on a mostly mechanical, pressure controlled, auto- Blow-forward bolt hybrid (been dreaming up longer),
Perhaps using part of this concept on it.
IF/ when I ever finish current pneumatic.

Thanks for reading the post and the feed back POLAND_SPUD!!! :) 8)

OH, where you have "Carbon dioxide" should be "carbon monoxide" Or ???
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:12 am

I think it would be simpler to use off the shelf timers to do the trick... in fact, I have one of them right in front of me right now
:)

unfortunately, I didn't get the right one... I wanted one that would switch on and off in a loop as long as the button is pressed... lol that's a lesson learned - always do your research first...

well it's not such a big deal as I will find some use for it anyway... the one I got will close (or open) a circuit once a pre-set time elapses...
of course I have to trigger it first by sending electric signal via a momentary switch


this kind of timer would be ideal for use in your design you could use one simple electric switch to trigger the gun...

once activated it will send a short signal via timer to the 3 way valve to quickly open and close the valve after a pre-set time..
the second timing circuit will ignite the mix (eg. 0.1 second) after the valve opens&closes


those timers are really cool for those of use who are not good at electronics... there are different versions... some of them are all in one timers while some have one timing function only... have a look here:

http://www.airotronics.com/site/info_timingmodes.php
http://www.globalspec.com/FeaturedProdu ... es/96951/0

EDIT
it isn't called a timing circuit in English it's just a timer... I already corrected it
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Last edited by POLAND_SPUD on Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: THUNDERLORD » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:43 am

POLAND_SPUD wrote:it think it would be simpler to use off the shelf timing circuits to do the trick... in fact, I have one of them right in front of me right now
:) ...


Thanks!
I will check it out when I'm awake. :P
Seems I'm often re-inventing components I didn't know existed in better forms.

I even re-invented pressure switches once! (long time ago).
Well I do tend to come up with decent alternatives sometimes. :P :? 8)

Got to get ready for this thing barely worthy of being called "work".
There's plenty of mechanical components at my new job...
It's in automotive field...once again, another field I need to have discipline not to start daydreaming while looking around.
..almost as bad as HVAC work.

For example, we use automatic tire fillers which are programmable for tyre pressure and self adjust...Just like my old idea for digital, programmable pressure (similar to a thermostat)!!! :shock: 8)
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