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Hybrid Valve design

Post questions and info about hybrid (compressed gas with fuel) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, build types, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Hybrid Valve design

Unread postAuthor: BigBang J » Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:52 pm

What do you guys think of this?

It is basically a pop valve, the opening pressure depends on the strenght of the spring used, so it can be tweeked there.
The front valve piston will be made from a flouropolymer material like PTFE for smooth opperation and a good seal.
The seal will not be made from the cylinder wall to the OD of the piston, but rather the front of the piston will be conical and fit into a hole
creating the seal. This seals the pressureized gas/air mix in the combustion chamber. When the gun fires the pressure will force the piston back, the secondary piston you see
in the rear will catch on the sear located on the bottom of the valve. This will ensure that all of the gas escapes. The front piston will slide back so that the ports on the side will be opened and the gas escapes
through the ports through some metal tubing and is guided to the coupling and barrel.


Also I am looking for some software for calculating helpful thing for building Hybrids, like chamber volume chamber to barrel ratio etc.
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Unread postAuthor: jhalek90 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:21 pm

This will not work.

Unless i am mistaken,the surface area difference of your "front piston" will actually cause it to remain shut.

I see no way that this will open.
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Unread postAuthor: kjjohn » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:33 pm

@jhalek90 - I believe you misinterpreted his design. There is no pressure between the two pistons at any time, so it would work. The cone shaped piston at the front is the only piston exposed to the chamber pressure, and upon ignition, it pushes back, uncovering the two openings in the side. The two pipes coming off the sides lead to the barrel, not the chamber. From what I understand, the only reason for the back piston is to catch on to the sear to keep the valve open.

So yes, I do believe this may work. However, it is very similar to every other hybrid valve design I have seen.
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Unread postAuthor: inonickname » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:38 pm

I'm actually going to agree with Jhalek. With the way the drawing is, I can't see it working. The forces seem balanced to me.
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Unread postAuthor: ramses » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:08 pm

If chamber pressure is applied to the extreme right port, it may work.
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Unread postAuthor: c11man » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:45 am

he made a popoff valve with a latch to keep it open, it will certainly work. but power will not be great because the valve has poor flow and not very fast opening time. the piston might might move too fast for the latch to catch it.

he designed it to have the chamber on the right hand port and the barrel on the right
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Unread postAuthor: BigBang J » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:10 pm

kjjohn has got the concept correctly.

Try to focus on the concept for now, like I said the proportions have not been worked out. And my barrel is only going to be 1/4" dia.

c11man "he designed it to have the chamber on the right hand port and the barrel on the right"

No the cumbustion chamber is on the right side and the barrel is on the left side of drawing. So the gas enters the right side of valve, and exits out of the side vents to barrel via metal tubing.

Why do you think it will have poor air flow? If it is because of the proportioning of the drawing then thats ok because the proportions are not accurate.

Abybody have a better idea for a high flow valve?
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Unread postAuthor: Gun Freak » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:13 pm

BigBang J wrote:Anybody have a better idea for a high flow valve?

A burst disk. The flow doesn't get much better.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:21 pm

BigBang J wrote:Why do you think it will have poor air flow? If it is because of the proportioning of the drawing then thats ok because the proportions are not accurate.


Using vent holes to direct the gas into the barrel will always produce poor flow relative to the dimensions of the valve. However, since your barrel is only 1/4" in diameter, the valve likely isn't going to restrict flow in the system.

Anybody have a better idea for a high flow valve?


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Unread postAuthor: c11man » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:25 pm

i made a typo, i meant the barrel when on the left, but i typed right instead.

to get better flow a piston valve could do it.
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Unread postAuthor: BigBang J » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:59 pm

I did not want to use a burst disk if I could avoid it.

SpudBlaster15 Ahh. so the piston in your diagram seals directly to the rear of the barrel?
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Unread postAuthor: saefroch » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:11 pm

Yes, SpudBlaster posted a fairly run-of-the-mill barrel sealing hybrid piston valve. They are built and operate almost exactly like a pneumatic piston valve.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:34 pm

BigBang J wrote:SpudBlaster15 Ahh. so the piston in your diagram seals directly to the rear of the barrel?


Yes.

That's a slightly modified diagram of GalFisk's hybrid piston valve. Mine is similar in operation, but his diagram is far better, so I posted it instead.
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