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mini hybrid win!

Post questions and info about hybrid (compressed gas with fuel) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, build types, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:00 pm

I love the suppressor!! The larger the volume the better for a suppressor, more room to allow gasses to expand.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:37 am

MrCrowley wrote:My word, that is a large suppressor.


It's not *that* big, 33mm I/D copper, around 37cm long - certainly not the biggest I've ever made :roll:

Here's the actual internal construction, currently curing with testing scheduled for tomorrow morning.
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Unread postAuthor: Crna Legija » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:52 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:Started on the suppressor, I've lopped off 4 inches from the barrel which will hurt performance but make it more "pistol sized" - let's see how effective I can make it :)


the sawed off bug got you :D
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:10 am

-_- wrote:the sawed off bug got you :D


Not at all, it was painful to take those inches off!

Let's hope it hasn't affected performance too much, we'll see. It would be good to keep the velocity just below the speed of sound for maximum suppressor effectiveness.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:10 pm

Update on the suppressor, the epoxy cured quicker than I expected so I've been doing some testing.

It's not exactly "mouse fart" effective, but it certainly takes the edge off the muzzle crack and the noise is a lot more tolerable. I did some chrony tests at various mixes too, first a video of a shot at 10x to show chrony reading and some indication of noise, target was a folded up towel so there should be little projectile impact noise.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKvmC4BuO6Y[/youtube]

Here's some data for 16 grain 0.22" pellets showing mix - velocity - muzzle energy:

8x - 840 fps - 25.1 ft/lbs

9x - 879 fps - 27.4 ft/lbs

10x - 925 fps - 30.4 ft/lbs

12x - 983 fps - 34.3 ft/lbs

14x - 991 fps - 34.8 ft/lbs

Yes, I got first click ignition at 14x :) I have to say that I wasn't expecting successful piezo ignition at such high mixes after CpTn_lAw's 8x limit data, but it works :D

The relatively small gain in velocity between 12x and 14x suggests that a stronger disk is needed to see more benefit. Two disks held at 10x but will probably fail at 14x, we'll see...

edit: Yes, 14x will burst a double disk :D I'll try and get a chrony reading.

Here's the (roughly sanded) suppressor, chamber and ignitor setup:
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:58 pm

Haha that's awesome, love how much larger the suppressor is than chamber
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Unread postAuthor: SpudFarm » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:18 pm

Now this is getting nice!
The suppressor looks very good and the chamber is realistically pistol sized. I think I will convert my mini piston pneumatic into a hybrid now :P

Your design could be extremely nice if stock mounted! However, the only thing I see wrong is that you will (probably) be holding that hybrid right ahead of your eye with a epoxy end plug..
My uncle once shot his eye out in a very simmilar manner.

The 14x piezo ignition is also very shocking, I have not expected that.
You keep on changing my plans for my future of spudding :)
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Unread postAuthor: Gun Freak » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:47 pm

Whats the ETA on that nice handle, and can we get a picture of the whole thing assembled, maybe a video of it firing at something with the suppressor? Looking awsome, congratulations on the success!
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Unread postAuthor: SpudFarm » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:59 pm

congratulations on the success!


That's a first for Jack :D

Couldn't resist :)
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:59 pm

SpudFarm wrote:
congratulations on the success!


That's a first for Jack :D


Oh come on, you say that every time I make something which works :P anyway, this was a triumph ;) :D

SpudFarm wrote:Your design could be extremely nice if stock mounted!


That's what I was thinking, a hybrid version of the DeLisle carbine :D

Image

However, the only thing I see wrong is that you will (probably) be holding that hybrid right ahead of your eye with a epoxy end plug.


True, however after extensive testing I'm very confident about the construction - it survived closed chamber at 14x, nothing like the previous version.

My uncle once shot his eye out in a very simmilar manner.


With an epoxy hybrid :?

The 14x piezo ignition is also very shocking, I have not expected that.


Aye, that raises my expectations for cartridge performance too :) didn't get a velocity reading for 14x with a double burst disk, but it didn't even penetrate one layer of steel :? while I'm at it, I'll probably give 16x a go ;)

Whats the ETA on that nice handle


Not for the moment, I'm going to put this aside from now and concentrate on the hybrid cartridge project - if I'm going to make a suppressed pistol, why not have it sem-auto :) though power would not be on the same level, it would be good to have a pistol sized package with more power than my FX Monsoon.

can we get a picture of the whole thing assembled, maybe a video of it firing at something with the suppressor?


Here it is assembled with what it might look like with a Welrod or Makarov PB style grip, I'll make some videos later in the day to take advantage of the natural light for some decent HS footage.
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:07 am

That is awesome!! I love it... dang i wish I were at home to build!! Superb job!
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Unread postAuthor: CpTn_lAw » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:40 am

Hey JSR, I opened up my hybrid and saw that the two electrodes were far from 0.3 mm, mluch more 1mm like ^^, so yeah, I think my data might have been slightly off-course as I increased the mixes. Now that i use an automotive sparkplug, the gap is much more robust.
However, i'm really afraid the epoxy might break...that's why i didn't go farther than 10x... (even if the combustion was totaly held inside...)
More testing today, and man, kudos for the mini hybrid....really fantastic ;)
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:51 am

CpTn_lAw wrote:Hey JSR, I opened up my hybrid and saw that the two electrodes were far from 0.3 mm, much more 1mm like ^^, so yeah, I think my data might have been slightly off-course as I increased the mixes.


You live, you learn :) Thanks for the kudos guys, been having a play with it at 14x with 0.22 pellets while the latest cartridge prototype is curing, enjoy:

(used!) smoke grenade:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvnK4eBIT40[/youtube]

walkman:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edvaclaPyR8[/youtube]

long suffering UPS case:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytu6D8N8q_o[/youtube]

metal cap, you can just see a piece of flattened led spinning by after the shot:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPCsm1Jom6w[/youtube]


And finally, another shot at the walkman in real time with sound:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHgwjc-qD-8[/youtube]
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Unread postAuthor: jakethebeast » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:13 am

thats very impressing results, now try that with 6mm airsoft BB :D :D

but now that your breaked the sound barrier the fun of people who try to be the first is over. time for 2x sorun barrier :twisted:
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Unread postAuthor: inonickname » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:37 am

Jake, 991 FPS isn't over the sound barrier. The speed of sound is ~1125 fps at SPT. Plenty of people have verified supersonic claims as well, so this isn't really a first either.

Though I do agree, try an airsoft BB in it :)
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