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Bladeless fans in hybrids?

Post questions and info about hybrid (compressed gas with fuel) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, build types, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Bladeless fans in hybrids?

Unread postAuthor: saefroch » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:33 pm

Following the recent discussion about fans in high-temperature environments, might it be possible to use a bladeless fan inside a hybrid to generate turbulence and decrease burn time? This should explain what I'm referring to. Some hybrids already use high-voltage ignition systems that may be able to power such a device.

I think it might be possible to induce a blender-like flow around the outside of the chamber (similar, I think, to how Vera's fans work). The only fear I have is that this mixing system might also become an ignition system, since it produces large amounts of ozone.

Any thoughts?
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Unread postAuthor: USGF » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:50 pm

It's the motor that takes a beating. How about a magnetic coupling right through the walls of the main chamber? motor remains outside. The fan rotor has a small bearing and a couple of Neo magnets to transmit power. Would work great with aluminum and non-metalic guns.

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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:06 pm

USGF wrote:It's the motor that takes a beating. How about a magnetic coupling right through the walls of the main chamber? motor remains outside. The fan rotor has a small bearing and a couple of Neo magnets to transmit power. Would work great with aluminum and non-metalic guns.


This is how we do it in the lab, the only thing that goes inside the flask is a teflon coated magnet:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPgLMeQb7c8[/youtube]
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:03 pm

It's possible, but remember how ion fans and lifters work.

Basically, a sharp electrode that can easily leak current, and a blunt one for the now-charged air molecules to be drawn toward.
As you increase the distance between the two, the ion wind effect becomes less and less noticeable(it happens pretty rapidly with distance). The same thing happens when you pack additional atmospheres between them, aka increase the mix pressure. Your fan will have to be 'tuned' to a certain mix; too low and you've got an arc occurring, too high and the fan will be less efficient or stop working.
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Unread postAuthor: al-xg » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:53 am

I'm doing some R&D work on magnetically driven pumps at the moment.
The higher spec ones use N45 grade rare earth magnets on the drive shell.

But for an axial fan, transmitted torque would be pretty low.
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Unread postAuthor: saefroch » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:05 pm

Ahhhh after thinking about this a bit I can see how you could drive a fan or stirring system with a magnetic-stirrer type of setup.

Does added turbulence bring any danger of DDT?
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Re: Bladeless fans in hybrids?

Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:10 pm

saefroch wrote:Any thoughts?


It would be cute to (say) run your gizmo at 10 kV to mix and then bump it to 20 kV to fire. I say cute because it's...well... cute to be able to have multi-function components.

HOWEVER... I see all sorts of potential problems and for what... To avoid having to use a fan that can be made almost arbitrarily rugged?

In sum: I see a sexy solution looking for a problem.
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Re: Bladeless fans in hybrids?

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