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Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Post questions and info about hybrid (compressed gas with fuel) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, build types, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:05 pm

lordBenio wrote:I have been mauling over for sometime now.


Mulling over I hope ;)

My stock response to these designs is, have you considered pre-mixed cartridges?
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:46 pm

lordBenio wrote:Dry cell electrolysis is dependent the amount of amps you put in and the number of plates used. So you can get high outputs of hydrogen.

Well, yes - but it's also dependent on not breaking the laws of thermodynamics. :D

It's like electric cars. Dependent on the make and model, a tank of petrol will last a few hundred miles - but using mains power to charge an electric car to go that far (despite electric motors being more than twice as efficient as combustion engines) will take about a day.

Combustion both takes and releases massive amounts of energy, and if you want to get that out of a power cable, it's like trying to fill a bath one cup at a time.

If you need large quantities of hydrogen, gas cylinders are almost certainly more convenient (and quite possibly cheaper, after you see your electric bill).
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Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: lordBenio » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Has anyone made a liquid fueled hybrid. If I were to use a liquid fuel that should get me fast rates of fire and potentially higher velocities.
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: matti » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:17 am

lordBenio wrote:Has anyone made a liquid fueled hybrid. If I were to use a liquid fuel that should get me fast rates of fire and potentially higher velocities.


Propane is kind of liquid.. :D Anyway why not use it ? It's proven quite good and works with high mixes too :lol:
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: mobile chernobyl » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:32 pm

What you are describing is precisely the conclusion Utron came to - and if you view the Defense document below - you can see their solution!

(It will automatically start downloading a pdf file when you click it - it's worth a thorough read through!)

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA462130
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:23 am

The only way to make an automatic hybrid would be to directly use a motorcycle 4-stroke engine, the powerful, adapted for that purpose. It's an idea I'm studying, quite "outlandish" actually.
It would be possible though nothing simple, to use the power of deflagration of the mixture of fuel and air to propel a projectile. These engines with their valves, compression, carburetion and "natural" ability to repeat cycles of intake, compression, explosion and exhaust would be useful.
The rotation of the crankshaft indispensable to carry out the cycles would be in charge of an electric motor, since the energy of the explosions would be invested exclusively to energize the projectile.
I do not know if it could be used much beyond the compression ratio for which the engine is designed, but I imagine that with a motor, such as my motorcycle (Honda elite 125 cc), which I look with infinite affection, :evil: would be available Of 125 cm3, and could increase the normal compression ratio of 7, to about 10. In short it is just a crazy idea that I wanted to share. :shock:
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:12 am

This is roughly how I would see it:

autopistonhybrid.png


Compression piston driven by a heavy duty spring spring held by a trigger. Fuel is injected, trigger is released compressing the fuel air mixture which is ignited at the moment of full compression. Overpressure opens the breech piston which allows the hot gasses to dump through the barrel, and they also re-compress the compression piston ready for the next shot.
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:04 am

Interesting method possible.
I thought, just an idea, to use the fuel, which should be propane, to achieve the compression of the explosive mixture. I mean use the propane pressure, applied on a large piston, which would be attached to a much smaller piston, to compress. I see that the fuel gas has two aspects of energy, one its heat capacity and the other its pressure in the tank.
The ammunition loading system would be achieved by the recoil of the cartridge loading system caused by the deflation and a hard spring. I can hardly raise a scheme for more clarity.
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:14 am

Why not use gasoline, it's a much more energy dense fuel than propane and this means you would not need any compressed fuel around the launcher at all. The only trick is injecting the right amount, but internal combustion engines have been doing this for more than a century.
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:20 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:Why not use gasoline, it's a much more energy dense fuel than propane and this means you would not need any compressed fuel around the launcher at all. The only trick is injecting the right amount, but internal combustion engines have been doing this for more than a century.
And it only took thousands of engineers about 100 years to come up with a truly effective means of injecting fuel. :D
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:29 am

Nothing wrong with standing on the shoulders of giants ;)
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:14 pm

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:Nothing wrong with standing on the shoulders of giants ;)


Yes, to my way of thinking it could work perfectly with gasoline. It would need a small carburetor and almost nothing else. :shock:
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Re: Automatic Piston Hybrid Cannon Design

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:22 pm

This is an idea to compress the mix into a hybrid I was thinking about.
It would work as follows.

In the "A" position of the diagram:

The double-acting cylinder can be operated with compressed air or a gas tank (propane), which has the advantage of not requiring the system any type of compressed air, to do anything. Directly use the gas pressure to compress the hybrid.
When the gas enters by "2" and escapes by "3", the combustion gas (previously dosed), and the necessary air are sucked by "1." This double-acting pneumatic cylinder is connected to a Distributing valve 5/2 to perform the retraction of the plunger in both directions.
The mixture is thus ready to be compressed.

In position "B":
The gas and air inlet "1" is closed by means of a valve.
The gas enters by "3" and escapes from the other side by "2", forcing the major piston towards the left. As the piston of the double-acting cylinder is larger than that of the combustion chamber, the force is applied in a smaller area and therefore the pressure rises.
The pneumatic actuator "4" actuates and locks the piston rod of the two pistons and is the one that tolerates the effort of the explosion, holding the two pistons in place.

For example, here an estimate:
If the propane is about 7 bar, and the area of the larger piston is about 28 cm2 (Diameter 6 cm), and the smaller piston has an area of 7 cm2 (diameter 3 cm), the force exerted on the piston greater:


F= P . A,

F= 7 Kg/cm2 X 28 cm2

F= 196 Kg

With this force as an example, in the smaller piston of the combustion chamber the pressure is:

P= F / A

P= 196 kg / 7 cm2

P= 28 Kg/ cm2 unas 400 Psi

There is no need for me to describe the cartridge loading system, which is based on the charging system I have built for the improvement of small autonomous hybrids. I will put it in my post as soon as I can make a video of how it works.
I would like to know what you think about this possibility. I'm sure there are MANY ways to do this ....
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diagrama sistema compresión para híbrido

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