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Small semi automatic hybrid project

Post questions and info about hybrid (compressed gas with fuel) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, build types, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:36 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:OK, I understand this a bit better now, good find!

pdf link to the study for those interested.

The pressure spike in the secondary chamber really is quite impressive, it looks like this could be a legitimate way of boosting energies from a hybrid without necessarily increasing mix number. If I understood correctly the tests were carried out in closed chambers, which means that having the secondary chamber open to a barrel changes the dynamic somewhat if you are using an atmospheric combustion, but of course in a hybrid you would be using a burst disk.

First of all. It was impossible for me to upload the PDF file because it is quite heavy, you did it. Excellent!
It is interesting to enhance or give more power to combustion weapons. In my case, my combustion weapons have a retention of ammunition, a neodymium magnet, and it seems to be enough to partially seal the second chamber. There is definitely an increase in energy and change the noise to a small dry sound, and stronger, up there and proven myself. They are small caliber, 3/16 "and 1/4" steel ammunition.
According to my calculation for the penetration power that was observed, they behave like a hybrid of approximately 2X.
I have not tried with a hybrid.
As you know, in those small calibers the power of combustion weapons is very bad ... because the area where the combustion pressure is applied is so small. With this technique I have significantly improved the power, without logically, to the potenmcias of a hybrid that are strong in themselves.
Well, the subject is here for those interested in browsing or developing something like that. :)
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:16 am

This would be the rigor experiment. I imagine that with at least 5X in both cameras the result would be interesting ....
Let's say that in the first chamber the peak pressure at the time of the explosion could reach 7 times 5X about 35 bar, 500 psi.
In the second chamber, the pressure could go, according to the author, about 7 times more, about 245 bar, 3500 psi, according to figure 1.2 of the article.
Double rupture disc could be used to achieve the maximum pressure peaks in both combustion chamber.
I leave a picture of my little test. The secondary chamber is an aluminum tube reinforced with glass fabric and epoxy resin.

WARNING: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
This breaks where the red arrow is. I already pass without compressing anything, with a small and common combustion weapon. I attach a photo of the only piece of 1 mm PET plastic that I could find. The rest of the approximately 150 ml container disappeared in my workshop ... I do not want to imagine what could happen if I use a compressed mixture and have a break there. I say it to stay calm myself, and knowing that here, there are many people who experiment with these things.
As a curious fact, in this small accident I had, the primary camera of about 200 ml also made of PET plastic, suffered absolutely no damage.
It is noteworthy that I made countless shots with this small combustion gun using these PET containers, without ever having a minimum deformation. If it burns, but does not break with about 10 bar.
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:58 am

hectmarr wrote:It is interesting to enhance or give more power to combustion weapons. In my case, my combustion weapons have a retention of ammunition, a neodymium magnet, and it seems to be enough to partially seal the second chamber. There is definitely an increase in energy and change the noise to a small dry sound, and stronger, up there and proven myself. They are small caliber, 3/16 "and 1/4" steel ammunition.


This is actually quite interesting...

Image

A dual chamber combustion cartridge, perhaps...
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hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:14 am

It would work well in my opinion. I have this system here: http://picasion.com/i/2kdku but they are not cartridges, it is directly the weapon. This publication here: miniature-cannons/topic26503.html
What you have to achieve, is a high turbulence of the flow of the primary combustion chamber, when it passes to the secondary one, because this flow of high turbulence has more energy, communicates more energy. A thin orifice plate, when passing gases at high speed, creates a lot of turbulence that is what interests.
This is an image, with the measurements, of my experiment with a combustion weapon.
I can barely make a small video to listen to the sound. I will not be able to measure speeds, but I think it illustrates well how it works. This is perceived more, when it is without the firing gun.
No doubt that is very interesting :) at least as an option to evaluate.
The problem I see with the cartridges is the small volume they can contain, I do not know, I would like to understand how you see it.
I am planning to do this first experiment with the first compressed combustion chamber and the second at atmospheric pressure.
The idea is to see the increase in energy measured by the penetration power of the ammunition.
First it shoots with the primary chamber alone, several times and would average how much it penetrates, using bar soap.
Second the secondary camera is attached, and the procedure is repeated.
Regarding the penetration test, look at this:
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:56 am

Using regular projectiles fired at a regular target are a good way of comparing power if you don't have a chronograph.

Consider using putty instead of soap otherwise it's going to get expensive!
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hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:14 am

This afternoon I will read the article :) This very good is going to be an option of less economic cost.
All these new tests, double combustion chamber, are for later in time because I'm still semi-auto, and I have several things to prove about this.
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:02 am

hectmarr wrote:I have several things to prove about this.


To be honest you could stop here and your place in the Spudding Hall of Fame is already secure!
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hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:12 am

Only ideas and experiments ... :oops: I want to have something that works practically, that shoots. That is my goal. But the truth is very good to be able to talk about these things, and leave something for someone other than me to try these things someday, I do not know. Likewise, design and experimentation are enjoyed. :)
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:26 am

I'm thinking of improving the device responsible for measuring the fuel gas butane and injecting it into the combustion chamber. I came up with this simple form, and it seems to me a solution to be able to vary the amount of gas depending on different volume of each combustion chamber, (for the experiments), with the purpose of having an optimal stoichiometric ratio, for the different cameras.
The diagram has 4 possible gas quantities, but when you build it, it will have at least 10.
This will leave me free to have to build a new one, every time I try something ... :x
This system measures and injects at atmospheric pressure, which is how I use it in autonomous hybrids and in semi-automatic hybrid experiments.
The "CURSOR" moves so that the exit "B", which is where the excess gas escapes, communicates with each of the holes graduated in the cylinder. I have tried a simple version, and it works correctly. 8)
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:59 pm

I managed to manufacture a small semi-automatic hybrid airsoft gun, I leave some pictures and next week I will make the corresponding video. Shoot 6mm plastic BBs, with enough speed at 5X. I have built some components again to make them smaller and put everything together in "something" with a sight and with a stock to be able to shoot. The compressed air tank the remote. It works perfectly, and shoots every 3 or 4 seconds.
The first problem is the excessive heat for the piston and several other parts that are resin ... The charger has capacity for 10 BBs, but I use it with 5 ammunition because I do not think it supports the heat.
The solution is to make everything metal.
I'm making an equal shot system but for 5.5mm lead spherical ammunition.It is very fun to shoot, and this "drawer" is prototype 1 :D
I can barely upload the trial video of shots to be seen in action, and the design diagrams.

The other way of design, much more complex in terms of construction, I have not been able to follow it for now, due to my own limitations in knowledge to machine these elements and for not having the necessary tools. I mean to use cartridges with the pressurized mixture in each of them, being the weapon only to shoot the cartridges in a semi automatic and automatic way. The system of loading and ejection of each cartridge would be by inertia of recoil, which Jack has already experienced and that works.
These design ideas, which I present here, are to be built with very few tools, and only this is the meaning of the project. :)
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:34 am

el G11 Argentino!

:D

Looking forward to seeing the video!
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hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:17 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:el G11 Argentino!

:D

Looking forward to seeing the video!

Yes, it is similar to G11. I was looking in google, because I did not know this weapon. Maybe I removed the shoulder rest to make it more similar :D
 
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:01 pm

Here the video of a shooting test. The "cameraman" is a little small, :) so the filming is not very good, but it is observed as it works. It is now finished to build the firing pipe and load system of lead pellets. The system I have installed is "stolen" from a small airsoft gun, and has supported the hybrid well. The plastic balls are what can shoot.
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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: farcticox1 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:24 pm

G11 :idea:

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Re: Small semi automatic hybrid project

Unread postAuthor: hectmarr » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:23 am

These are the final diagrams of the loading system of BBs, pneumatic system and combustion chamber.
For the pneumatic system to work, it is necessary that the compression pressure of the hybrid be greater than the pressure of the butane gas. In the case of this prototype, the gas does not exceed 3.5 bar, and the hybrid pressure is 5X- 6X.
Following the red and blue arrows, it is clear :?
The solenoid timer system is a relay and an electrolytic capacitor. According to the value of the capacitance, it is the time that the solenoid valve 5/2 is activated, (position "YES" in the diagram).
Any questions on this subject, ask and I will answer.
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