Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 42 users online :: 5 registered, 0 hidden and 37 guests


Most users ever online was 218 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

Automatic hybrid cannon

Post questions and info about hybrid (compressed gas with fuel) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, build types, safety, and anything else relevant.
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

Automatic hybrid cannon

Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:59 pm

This is my idea for an automatic cannon, it’s got quite a few bugs which I’ll list at the end.
It’s official title: Judgment Arms 200cal. automatic hybrid cannon model XM000 or A.H.C.XM000

First I’ve got to tell you what it shoots or otherwise you’ll be very confused. It uses “cased” ammunition made out of 1.25inch SCH40 PVC with an end cap on one and a burst disk on the other. The end cap will have a brass or copper ring about 1/2inch wide on it, and what ever I get to hold the burst disk in will have a brass/copper ring about 5 inches wide on it, the reason it’s so long is because it holds the projectile in it. Attached to the copper/brass rings will be the spark gap. The case is pressurized and filled with propane and acts like the combustion chamber on any other hybrid. The projectile will be ether a paint grenade which is my preference but if they won’t work for one reason or another I’ll use NERF rocket/foot ball/dart/thingies.
Ok now for the gun:
The gun itself is basically a tube, a piece of 2inch SCH40 PVC which is the barrel and most, or at least part, of the receiver. The bolt would be 1.25ich SCH40 PVC because it fits inside 2inch SCH40 PVC. The breach has brass/copper rings which correspond with the ring on the case, the rings receive continues electricity from a tazer. The gun firers from an “open bolt”, which means the bolt is normally open, when you squeeze the trigger the bolt closes pulling a round out of the magazine, pushing it in the breach where the brass/copper rings meet up completing the circuit generating a spark which ignites the propane firing the cannon, some of the gasses from combustion are channeled through a gas tube close to the muzzle to move a small piston which unlocks the breach allowing it to fly open ejecting the spent case. the gas operated idea may not work if it doesn’t plan B is pretty much the same except when it fires the recoil open the bolt. The extractors are shone in the one of the pics. The ejector is the next round in the magazine, which works as fallows. The magazine will be made out of plywood, as wood is the easiest material for me to work, it will be a five round magazine as anything bigger would be to balky, the rounds will stick up a little in the front, which acts as an extractor…as I type this it occurs to me that this would not work as there would not be enough force to throw the round clear…
That’s about all I can think of.
The bugs and problems that need to be worked out:
1.ejector, as of now I do not have an idea on what to do about this problem.
2.ammo, does anybody know the average OD of a “Pod Rocket”, or of any paint grenades that fit in 2inch SCH40 PVC?
3.the “mix” I’m thinking something like 2X or 2.5X.

This is my design DO NOT COPY IT AND CLAIM IT AS YOU OWN!!!!! If you deiced to claim this as yours just be warned I don’t use the court system, and I like turkey hunting…

There will be more I’ve got a lot of bug to work out but as for what I’ve got so far, whatdoyathink?
  • 0

Attachments
extractors.JPG
the extractors
extractors.JPG (8.38 KiB) Viewed 1453 times
Call me "Judge", it's easier to type.

Spud gun safety rules
User avatar
judgment_arms
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Not so beautiful North Carolina, but at least it’s the U.S.A.!
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: killagorrila99 » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:33 pm

That design is so complex the mere thought of understanding it would make your brain turn into a chocolate flavored pop tart.
  • 0

"I'm sorry, Mr.Bush cant come to the phone right now, He's playing cleudo with Mr. Cheney And he has him in the Cupboard with a broom stick" -White house receptionist.
User avatar
killagorrila99
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:35 am
Location: Australia.
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:39 pm

Complex???? I got most of the design from the Sten! Come on Killa your smarter than that. you are smarter then that, right?
  • 0

Last edited by judgment_arms on Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Call me "Judge", it's easier to type.

Spud gun safety rules
User avatar
judgment_arms
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Not so beautiful North Carolina, but at least it’s the U.S.A.!
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: pyromanic13 » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:54 pm

you think the pressure will be sustained long enough to return the bolt? If I get this right it's like my design but the copper contacts are on the back and it shoots nerfs. also the bolt containes the contcacts that ignite the carterages?

for ejection could you possibly channel some of the pressure to blast the carterage out?
  • 0

Movie dialogue: "The good die first."
Tom: "But most of us are morally ambiguous, which explains our random dying
patterns."

pyromanic13
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 913
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:54 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:05 pm

Figured out the ejection,
The magazine is now on top instead of the bottom, when the round is pulled out it just drops. The magazine has “lips” on it to keep the next round in just like on a most clips for firearms. In a few days I’ll have a picture or two showing how this thing works and what it looks like.

Pyromanic13, if there’s not enough gas pressure to open/un-lock the bolt then I’ll just leave the bolt un-locked. to your second question, yes and no, yes the case is similar to yours, no the contacts are not all at the back.
  • 0

Call me "Judge", it's easier to type.

Spud gun safety rules
User avatar
judgment_arms
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Not so beautiful North Carolina, but at least it’s the U.S.A.!
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:12 pm

Well, here’s the diagram for my automatic cannon. It’s vary crude, partially so nobody can copy it and get hurt and partially because I suck at MsPaint, but I hope it’s not too crude for y’all to understand it. Whatdoyathink?
  • 0

Attachments
Auto-Cannon.jpg
Judgment Arms Automatic Hybrid Cannon model XM000
Call me "Judge", it's easier to type.

Spud gun safety rules
User avatar
judgment_arms
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Not so beautiful North Carolina, but at least it’s the U.S.A.!
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Bluetooth » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:23 pm

Sounds great and only $3 a shell but make it simpler like just have a hopper thing and a pipe with electrodes that when the cartridge drops in it connects and you press the ignition. On the cartridges the parts on the outside that connect to the ignition in the gun should be rings so it will always connect.
  • 0

User avatar
Bluetooth
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:57 am
Reputation: 0

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: garrettee » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:26 pm

Nope, don't have a clue. Guess I'm too much of a noob.
  • 0


garrettee
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:18 am
Location: Louisville,Ky
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:51 pm

Well Bluetooth, the reason I used I spring loaded magazine is so there is no miss feeding, and the electricity is continuously applied to the to ring in the bolt (the yellow green boxes in the barrel with the lines through it) when the trigger is pulled the bolt closes pushing a round in to the chamber were the two sets of rings line up completing the circuit from the tazer to the spark gaps fire the whole thing. It’s all explained in my first post.

By the way, how do ya’ spell “tazer”? spell check doesn’t like t-a-z-e-r.
  • 0

Call me "Judge", it's easier to type.

Spud gun safety rules
User avatar
judgment_arms
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Not so beautiful North Carolina, but at least it’s the U.S.A.!
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Bluetooth » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:13 pm

Tazer? Nope. Taser? Nope. Stun gun? Spell check says tazers are non existent
but stun guns exist very much. Capacitor? Yep :lol: .
  • 0

User avatar
Bluetooth
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:57 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:37 pm

First I’d like to correct myself: I said my proposed cannon used “recoil operation”, not true, it will use the “blow-back operation” (whether it be pure or gas delayed will depend upon the performance, or lack there of, of the 2.00cal. round). I’d just like to say sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

Second, I’m currently working on a proof of concept gun, and I’ve heard people say (or more accurately read that) cased ammo will not work due to “fuel settling”, among other things. Before I go much farther I’d like some input from people that have experience in hybrids, or just know their stuff.
Any input will help, thanks in advance.
  • 0

Call me "Judge", it's easier to type.

Spud gun safety rules
User avatar
judgment_arms
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Not so beautiful North Carolina, but at least it’s the U.S.A.!
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Insomniac » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:01 am

Nice! I can't wait to finally see this built!!! I remember discussing it with you in another thread lol.

Oh and to solve the fuel settleing problem, put some non conductive chain of some sort in the cartrige, with each end of the chain attached to different parts of the cartrige. Move the gun and the chain will stir up the gas.
  • 0

I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges.
Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

Add me on msn!!! insomniac-55@hotmail.com
User avatar
Insomniac
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:47 pm
Location: Australia
Country: Australia (au)
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:51 pm

I’m trying to figure out if fuel settling is really an issue, I understand that you couldn’t charge it on Sunday and shoot it all week, but can I charge it in the morning in shoot it all day? Are we talking minutes, hours, or days before the fuel settles?

But yeah, even if this thing doesn’t shoot full automatic, it’ll still have one of the highest ROFs to date in a home-brew cannon.
Originally I was going to shoot this thing from the shoulder, equipped with an “A6” modification. (“A6” in reference to the variant of the Browning model 1919 known as the browning model 1919 A6.) But after doing some math I realized that the receiver alone was going to be nearly 10 feet long, I decided that I’d just put it on a mount of some sort.

Another thing, two thirds of the purpose of this cannon was the psychological impact of a BIG boom and a ball of fire… unfortunately we now live in a sub-division… (Idiots put a house dead center of a cannon test range!) I still have place to shoot, an old cow field cattycorner to our yard, but the noise will bother the other neighbors, and havin’ the cops knockin’ on my door ain’t high on my to-do list…
  • 0

Call me "Judge", it's easier to type.

Spud gun safety rules
User avatar
judgment_arms
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Not so beautiful North Carolina, but at least it’s the U.S.A.!
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: LGM » Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:49 pm

You would probably be looking at a couple of hours for the fuel to settle, but you could just turn the thing around a couple times to mix the fuel.
How would you mount the burst disk, a cam lock? A union would be too big to keep in a mag.
  • 0


LGM
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:06 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:20 pm

Hehe, don’t know, that’s one of the bugs that needs worked out…
You know, a thought hit me the other night, I’ve never made a successful combustion cannon, let alone a hybrid… I think I’m going to stick with pneumatics for awhile, I’m thinking about making a full automatic pneumatic cannon.
  • 0

Call me "Judge", it's easier to type.

Spud gun safety rules
User avatar
judgment_arms
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Not so beautiful North Carolina, but at least it’s the U.S.A.!
Reputation: 0

Next

Return to Hybrid Cannon Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'