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A Plan of Action

Post questions and info about hybrid (compressed gas with fuel) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, build types, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: mark.f » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:09 am

Mich, I might think about that.
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:17 am

CO2=1 part carbon 2 parts oxygen...what i was wondering is if the carbon would allow it to burn although it is very dense...


Alright, before this turns into a pointless argument, co2 is not an oxydizer and does not burn, at least under the conditions we are talking about. If you separate the carbon atom, then you are left with o2, which is a good oxydizer. While the o2 is bonded with carbon it is (mostly)inert.
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Unread postAuthor: mark.f » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:06 am

Alright, rmich, your reply left me really inspired to build something sweet.

Anyways, for some reason, it just drove me to write. I came up with most of my plans pretty quick. Here's a Word Document that details what I plan to do.

<a HREF="http://www.markfh11q.net/SecondGenerationII.doc">Document</A>
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Unread postAuthor: Velocity » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:26 am

I read the document, and it all sounded really good. You really thought this through, and you should end up with something powerful. The fueling system is really intriguing; hopefully it works out well.

One question I have: Will a BBQ lighter be enough to ignite a high mix, such as a 3X or 4X? I have heard in the past that people have had trouble with this... it might be remedied by a very short spark gap.

Good luck on your build... can't wait to see the finished product.
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Unread postAuthor: mark.f » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:28 pm

Yeah, I was planning on a gap of about 1/16" or less. That's 1/4 the length of a normal spark at a 1x mix, (inversely proportional, 1/4 of 1/4" = 1/16").

I really screwed up on the last one's spark gap. I left it around 1/4".
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Unread postAuthor: mopherman » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:11 pm

spudthug wrote:1. i am not planning on using it i was jsut wondering if it would work..

I dont think c02 has oxygen. so..... no


well..thats one of the stupidest things i've ever heard...(not saying ur stupid but its simple) a question for u...what does c stand for on the periodic table and what does o stand for...carbon and oxygen. O2 is what we breathe mixed with nitrogen..and O2 is in CO2

CO2=1 part carbon 2 parts oxygen...what i was wondering is if the carbon would allow it to burn although it is very dense...

well, crap. you got me there. Thanks for putting that strait.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:26 pm

_Fnord wrote:
CO2=1 part carbon 2 parts oxygen...what i was wondering is if the carbon would allow it to burn although it is very dense...


Alright, before this turns into a pointless argument, co2 is not an oxydizer and does not burn, at least under the conditions we are talking about. If you separate the carbon atom, then you are left with o2, which is a good oxydizer. While the o2 is bonded with carbon it is (mostly)inert.


CO2 can act as an oxidizer, but it has a very high heat of decomposition, and requires a fuel such as magnesiumto do so.
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Unread postAuthor: Velocity » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:46 pm

I looked at the document again, and thought about how you are putting a coupling and then an endcap on the pipe. Is the coupling there so that you can drill through it and align the electrodes correctly? With an endcap, you obviously couldn't do this, because you would not be able to see inside of the pipe.

If I am correct, it might be a good idea to bore out the coupling and then solvent weld it onto the chamber. This probably isn't necessary, but it might make construction a little bit easier, and having two less solvent weld joints creates two less areas for failure.

Could you perhaps provide a link to what this protective spray paint looks like? It sounds like a good thing
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Unread postAuthor: mark.f » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:11 am

Here's a link to the stuff: <a HREF="http://www.krylon.com/main/product_template.cfm?levelid=5&sub_levelid=11&productid=1831&content=product_details">linky</A>.

And yes, the coupling is just so I can get at the electrodes during construction. I might consider boring the coupling out since I have to get a 2-3/8" hole saw anyway for the wooden supports.

EDIT: just got the four-wheeler I'm gonna mount it on running good again. The mixture was running rich because the throttle cable wasn't adjusted right and my stepdad set the idle higher to adjust for it. I leaned up the mixture again and set the idle back to around 1400 RPM. Choke cable's still broken so I might take that to the Honda place down the road and get it replaced.

EDIT<sup>2</sup>: I replaced my original water displacement idea. It would be too bulky. I replaced it with something different. Thursday, walking through the D-Day museum, I found myself behind the Higgins boat on display there. I then saw a 3" test plug in the drain of the boat, and I had my idea.

The new fuel/air compressor will employ the use of a plug piston. I decided that the risk is minimal enough to use this. It will simply be two lengths of 4" SCH-40 mounted along the sides of the mount, rather like recoil dampeners on a real artillery piece. Each will have a sealing test plug towards the back, and in front will be the fuel/air mixture. The carry tank will have a regulator set to whatever compression I want, so all I have to do to fuel is open the chamber shutoff and it will fill it to the set compression and then stop.

I'm going to Tammany Supply this mourn to see if I can find any 2" SCH-80. It's a full-bang plumbing supply shop so I think they'll have it. Oddly enough, the most expensive part of this project will be the fueling system. Those two 4" plugs will be pretty expensive, as well as the regulator for the compressed air tank.


<B>EDIT<sup>3</sup></B>: IT BEGINS
I didn't find any SCH-80 at Tammany Supply, but they SAY they have it at the Home Depot in Slidell. My only problem is that they couldn't tell me definitively whether it was pressure rated or simply SCH-80 conduit.

In the meantime, I'm starting on the fueling system. I found the plugs for making the fuel/air compressor pistons. You actually have to buy two test plugs to make one workable piston, as each one has a lip that's larger than the I.D. of 4" pipe. Here's a picture of one of the pistons completed.

<img src="http://www.markfh11q.net/images/ram.jpg">

These would actually make a killer piston for certain piston valves. Simply get a washer, drill a hole in your sealing face, install, and drill a small equalization hole that comes out under the edge of the sealing face, for a check-valve-like effect. I've gotta find out what kind of rubber it is, though, so I can obtain a lubricant that won't degrade it. If it turns out to be gum rubber, than the only thing I know that I can obtain locally for a lubricant for the piston is KY Jelly. 8) It'll be embarrassing but it must be done!
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Unread postAuthor: Binder17 » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:19 am

I can't believe how similar your idea is to mine, except I didnt get looking at the back of the higgins boat. I had the concept in my head but with a few set backs. The test plug was the thing I needed for those set backs. I plan on using that air cylinder, that was supposed to be used on my previous cannon, to compress the fuel/air mixture. Sort of like a syringe. It seems that it would work but if you see something otherwise let me know.
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Unread postAuthor: noname » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:36 pm

Sounds great, although you don't need the Gen. II idea. Just make a simple mixing tank for it that uses compressed air and propane in a chamber, with an air chuck to connect to the ignition chamber. Simple and easy, and you don't need to lug around a water tank.
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Unread postAuthor: Velocity » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:46 pm

Noname: I think that using that type of mixing tank would not be as accurate as a Gen II fueling tank. The main problem with Gen I hybrids was getting the exact amount of compressed air to allow the propane to ignite.
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