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Premixed bulk tank

Post questions and info about hybrid (compressed gas with fuel) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, build types, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: turbohacker » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:24 pm

I think it is a wondurful idea!-However, if you plan on experamenting with other fuels like acetylene than be aware the some gasses become unstable at certian pressures. For example, the "unstable" pressure for acetylene is a mere 15psi when exposed t oxygen. You could fill a paper bag full of acetylene and proceed to pop it like a bag of air and it would (rather violently) explode in your face.-DO NOT ATTEMP THIS because it will cause permanent hearing loss! Im just warning you, I am not aware of the magical "unstable" level of other gasses, just read up before you experement. :D
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Unread postAuthor: noname » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:26 pm

I personally haven't taken chemistry, but I know that this does work. I had a PVC chamber with a propane meter, a schrader valve, and a tire chuck. It also happens to have a bunch of BBs in the chamber! I pressurize the chamber to about a 7x or 8x mix, then hook it up to the ignition chamber via the tire chuck. I can then fire at any mix over 1x.
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Unread postAuthor: Modderxtrordanare » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:05 am

Isn't this just a combination of both a GenI tank and a GenII tank?

Gen 1.5? :)


(P.S. I have alot to learn, for Spudblaster15 is my idol due to his chemistry "skillz" and I now know he hasn't even had a formal Chem class. :( *studies*)
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:13 am

turbohacker wrote:For example, the "unstable" pressure for acetylene is a mere 15psi when exposed t oxygen.


Actually, acetylene does not have to be exposed to oxygen to become unstable at 15psi, as the pressure triggered reaction is not reduction/oxidation, but rather decomposition, where the acetylene decomposes explosively to hydrogen and carbon. The reason acetylene tanks can run at a higher pressure without being extremely dangerous is because the acetylene is dissolved in acetone within the tank, which stabilizes it.
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Unread postAuthor: BC Pneumatics » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:16 am

Boo tripple bond! Hooray Beer!
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:58 am

Just dont go acetelyne with a hybrid but just do propane.
Problem solved :)

The more power you want, the more danger you get....

To get back on starting post:
A premixed bulk tank is a good idea. Gasses will mix perfectly over time i believe but you can mix it faster with a fan.
Just do propane, it will give a nice blast too acetelyne is already dangerous when useing a 1x mix....

By the way, if such a huge premixed tank explodes, it will all be over for you....
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:14 am

BC Pneumatics wrote:Boo tripple bond! Hooray Beer!


If I had room I'd sig that :)

psycix wrote:By the way, if such a huge premixed tank explodes, it will all be over for you....

Not only will it be all over for you, but you will be all over (the walls).

That's also something to think about, actually. In some cases pvc does have some undesirable static electric properties. Not really a big deal with most guns, but If you make a bulk tank you might want to consider putting a 2 or 3" burst disk on it as a precaution. The chamber would still rupture, but with any luck most of the energy would be sent through the disk, lessening the energy carried by the fragments.
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Unread postAuthor: noname » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:20 am

Hasn't happened to me yet, but maybe I should install a union and burst disc as a pressure relief valve.
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Unread postAuthor: PVC Arsenal 17 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:27 am

I could always steel, but then I'd be asking for a spark!

Now again, I know nothing about mixtures and all that, but couldn't you scrap the propane meter entirely and (pulling numbers out my ass here) just fill the tank to... say 10 psi with propane, and then up to 50 psi with air?

That was probably a stupid question. How's this syringe thing work?
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:44 am

You could just fill the tank up to the right pressure as far as I know. If you have a propane meter it would be easier though.
(In this case the numbers you gave would yield 16% propane/84% air. I'm too lazy to work out the right numbers)
For a small hybrid you can use a syringe to measure and inject the exact amount of propane you need. Some people use them on minis to meter butane.
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Unread postAuthor: rednecktatertosser » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:46 am

I thin what you would do is put in one 'shot' of propane, then one atm of air(760 torr( thanks _fnord and Modder)), and repeat for the mix you want.
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Last edited by rednecktatertosser on Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:02 am

716.23 bar is 10528 psi :P
I think you meant 716 torr.
You need 4.2% propane by volume. Every 4.2% propane shot you add, you should add 14.7 psi (or 1 bar) of air.
(edit: keep in mind the tank already has 1 atmosphere in it, so you add one shot and then add 14.7 psi of air for each additional shot after the first)
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Last edited by Fnord on Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: rednecktatertosser » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:06 am

Yeah, i remembered that number from my chem class this past year and couldnt remember the unit to go with it. Thanks though

Also Bar=ATM right?
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Unread postAuthor: Modderxtrordanare » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:24 pm

Yeah, i remembered that number from my chem class this past year and couldnt remember the unit to go with it. Thanks though

Also Bar=ATM right?


1atm = 760torr
1 bar = ~760 torr

You didn't even remember the right number. :P

1 bar is a little bit less than 1 atm, but this is spudgunning, not rocket science. So pretty much, 1 bar = 1 atm.
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Unread postAuthor: rednecktatertosser » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:01 pm

Hey you know that i was thinking about spudguns and the like for that whole class. You actually kinda sorta paid attention and we mostly screwed around

Teacher-'this is a crucible'
Modder-'like Jesus?'
Redneck-'HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA'
Modder-'HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA'
Teacher-'whats so funny?'
Redneck-'Chemistry Jokes'
Modder-'HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA'
Redneck-'HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA'
:D :D
That was funny
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