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Premixed bulk tank

Post questions and info about hybrid (compressed gas with fuel) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about fuels, ratios, ignition systems, build types, safety, and anything else relevant.
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Premixed bulk tank

Unread postAuthor: PVC Arsenal 17 » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:12 pm

I've been into pneumatics for a while now, but I think I've finally reached the limit on the power I can achieve with them. It looks like the next step for me would be building a hybrid but I don't want a huge, overcomlicated heap of pipe parts for a cannon. I want to make something compact yet brutally powerful.

I have almost everything I need to cook up one with a .177 barrel but I keep running into a problem- How the hell do I get a reliable mixture in a small gun? A beastly propane meter defeats the purpose of a small gun.

Would it be possible to simply bulk fill a small gun from a larger tank that has been premixed? I could make a meter just for that and thread on a tire chuck that would fill my gun.
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Unread postAuthor: rednecktatertosser » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:17 pm

Yeah that sounds like it would work to me, but you would need to make sure that the gasses dont settle out in the premixed bulk tank.
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Unread postAuthor: PVC Arsenal 17 » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:41 pm

I figured that might be a problem. I could always throw in a few bb's and shake the thing before I fire.

I don't know much about the nature of gasses, but would gasses taken out of a tank come out in a consistent mixture or would it be more of a chance thing like taking different colored marbles from a jar?
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Unread postAuthor: rednecktatertosser » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:43 pm

i think it would be more of a chance thing which is why OXYACE torches are fed from seperate oxygen and acetelyne tanks into a single nozzle, mabye consider something like that.
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:27 pm

You could just do the whole "syringe meter" thing.

Or you could install a fan in your bulk tank. That would give you a good mix 100% of the time.

If you want compact, you could take a look at the hybrid I entered in the contest. It's way bigger than what you want for a .177 barrel, but you might see some design ideas to use.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:40 pm

rednecktatertosser wrote:you would need to make sure that the gasses dont settle out in the premixed bulk tank.


I quote jimmy101:

Do you ever feel like you are 'tilting at windmills' on this forum?


Some people just have no concept of how a gas behaves. "Make sure the gases don't settle out" is of course, blatantly idiotic. 2 gases, injected into one container will mix at a fairly slow rate, until they are completely homogeneous. Neither gas will "settle out".

The concept of a larger tank of premixed air/fuel has been done before, check out noname's generation 1 hybrid in the showcase section.
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Unread postAuthor: BC Pneumatics » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:43 pm

This is the specific reason Dave made the Gen 2, which is just a pre-mix system.
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Unread postAuthor: rednecktatertosser » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:44 pm

@ spudblaster Well dont crap yourself dude. sorry i dont have the best understanding of how gasses mix i was just trying to help.
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Unread postAuthor: BC Pneumatics » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:46 pm

If you can't cook, stay outta' the kitchen?
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:47 pm

Yea, so long as the pressure isn't enough to turn the gasses to liquids, they will stay mixed, it's the nature of gasses. But if you really insist upon making sure, you could make something like a spraypaint can with a ball bearing in it.
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Unread postAuthor: rednecktatertosser » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:50 pm

well i was going off my understanding of a combustion which uses a fan to mix the gasses so they get a better combustion, so i figured the same concept applies. also i thought that if 2 gasses were of different densities they would eventually settle out much like liquids of different densities.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:59 pm

Well combustions that have fans use one of two types of fuel: an aerosol, whice isn't actually a gas, rather tiny droplets of flammable liquid; in this case the fan spreads the droplets evenly for better combustion, or the cannon uses something like propane; in this case the fan simply aids in the diffusion of the gas, making the process quicker.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:03 pm

A fan is employed to mix the gases more quickly.

Gases, in many aspects, do not behave like liquids. If gases of different densities separated, and the denser settled, the oxygen in atmospheric air would settle, and those at sea level would be breathing nearly pure oxygen.

Don't assume, learn.
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Unread postAuthor: rednecktatertosser » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:04 pm

Ok thanks. Well I was wrong in my first post then and now i understand why.

Don't assume, Learn


Thanks guys, I have now gained an understanding as to why I was wrong.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:12 pm

rednecktatertosser wrote:Ok thanks. Well I was wrong in my first post then and now i understand why.

Don't assume, Learn


Thanks guys, I have now gained an understanding as to why I was wrong.


It's all good man, I can see how you would come to those conclusions if you haven't taken a good chem class. Speaking of which, you in high school? Anyhow, what kind of pressure will you be taking this premix tank to?
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