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pvc primer question

Post about things you have launched or thought about launching. Also post about various materials used for building cannons. No posts about explosive projectiles!
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pvc primer question

Unread postAuthor: singularity » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:17 pm

well for the last 10 or so cannons i have made (but for some reason have not posted becuase they just don't have that crazy awesome insane quality to them) i have been using this...

<img src="http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j85/irwinner_2006/0822070005.jpg">

...as primer even though it says cleaner. where as the normal purple stuff says primer on it, see.....

<img src="http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j85/irwinner_2006/0822070006.jpg">

now im just wondering is the clear stuff do the same thing as the purple stuff? or am i a complete retard and its very likely my cannons will explode? not that i would do anything about it just kinda curious

ps - the pictures look like crap cause i don't feel like finding the good camera so i took them with a cell camera
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Unread postAuthor: homedepotpro » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:29 pm

yeah thats probably not a good idea. the cleaner just cleans the pipe. it's not primer.
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Unread postAuthor: DirtyDan » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:37 pm

well, not that I'm an expert on pvc primer or anything, but I'm fairly certain that it would be wiser to use actual primer instead of just cleaner. Of course, it is important to have a clean surface to solvent weld upon, the purple stuff actually softens up the plastic to prepare it for bonding, while the cleaner just... well... cleans it. I doubt that it's absolutely essential to use primer in most pvc applications, but with safety and structural integrity in mind it would be definitely be a good idea... and of course, there's always clear primer which can be bought if it's those damn purple stains you're worried about...
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Unread postAuthor: mike1010 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:43 am

no thats not true the cleaner does the same stuff, i just got my first can of it yesterday before looking at this post the guy who had worked at the plumbing shop for 18 years said its the same stuff and it softens it too. also its chemically the same
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Unread postAuthor: singularity » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:52 am

ahh i always had a feeling the primer/cleaner where just to make it sound good (purple primer/clear cleaner... yay alliteration :P) well its nice to know im not going to die/be severely injured becuase of a bad glue joint. now back to playing with high voltage and explosives... the neighbors love to hear loud noises in the middle of the night.
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Unread postAuthor: mike1010 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:54 am

lol ya i use it now too and your far safer using it than playing with explosives. lol.
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Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:26 am

Nope, cleaner and primer (or cleaner/primer) ar NOT the same thing.

Cleaner is basically Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK). MEK does nothing to PVC except remove dirt. It does not soften the pipe significantly and will not dissolve the pipe.

Primer (or cleaner/primer) is very nearly the same thing as PVC glue except it does not have any PVC dissolved in it to start with. If you drop a small hunk of PVC pipe into primer it will eventually completely dissolve.

The SpudWiki has a page (http://www.spudfiles.com/spud_wiki/inde ... VC_Reagent) with the ingredient lists for typical PVC cleaner, primer and glue.

Mike101, time to find a new plumbing store. The "guy at the store" is wrong, wrong, wrong. You can tell he works at the store and does not actually work with the pipe. If he plumbed a house using cleaner in place of primer the inspector would make him rip everything out and do it again. The inspector would have no problem telling that primer was not used since there wouldn't be any purple stains. Primer is colored purple to prove to the inspector that it was used. Cleaner is not colored purple because it does not qualify as primer and doesn't do the same thing.
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Unread postAuthor: singularity » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:13 am

now wait a sec i have a feeling there the same thing they just wanted to make the name sound "good" are you sure the names are correct.

edit - just took a piece of pvc and divided in in three sections the first section i put "purple primer" on, the second section i put "clear cleaner" on and the last section i left untreated as a control. the clear cleaner and purple primer sections were both significantly softer than the untreated section after 5min of curing. this leads me to conclude the cleaner and primer have only one difference, their color, they both do the same job. i tested the "softness" with a pocket knife.
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Last edited by singularity on Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:17 pm

singularity wrote:now wait a sec i have a feeling there the same thing they just wanted to make the name sound "good" are you sure the names are correct

Not sure what you are referring to, but there are at least three different products for working with PVC;

1. PVC Cleaner
2. PVC Primer ("Purple Primer", "Primer/Cleaner", "Purple Primer/Cleaner" ...)
3. PVC Glue.

These three products are not interchangeable. PVC Primer is also available without the purple die. It's use would not pass building codes in most places in the US.

1. Cleaner will not dissolve pipe, it only cleans junk off the surface.
2. Primer dissolves pipe.
3. Glue is basically primer with PVC already dissolved in it.

Check the SpudWiki pages or visit a manufacturers web site like Oatey.
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Unread postAuthor: Gepard » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:51 pm

Jimmy,

Generally speaking, Yes, they're not interchangable BUT in this case the clear cleaner is used prior to solvent cementing and is designed to work in a similar way to primer. It does contain Acetone so it isn't *just* a cleaner. It will dissolve the pipe if left for long enough.

Bottom line though....It is not meant to replace primer.
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Unread postAuthor: thespeedycicada » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:07 pm

using cleaner is better than nothing and it works fine with combustions but i would not use it in pneumatics.If you dont have primer or acetone might work my friend used it in his combustion but im not sure if its safe.
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Unread postAuthor: singularity » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:23 pm

i have used it on about 10 pneumatics so far, lol. should probably buy some of that clear primer from BC...
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:10 pm

From their MSDS sheets:

Oatey clear cleaner:

Methyl ethyl ketone - 60% - 100%
Acetone - 15% - 40%

Oatey purple primer:

Methyl ethyl ketone - 25% - 80%
Acetone - 0% - 40%
Tetrahydrofuran - 5% - 30%
Cyclohexanone - 10% - 20%

Oatey purple primer/cleaner:

Acetone - 60% - 100%
Methyl Ethyl Ketone - 0% - 20%
Tetrahydrofuran - 0% - 20%
Cyclohexanone - 3% - 10%

My interpretation of this is that because all 4 ingredients are capable of dissolving PVC, any of these 3 should work to "prime" the pipe. The cleaner will work more slowly, as it lacks the more aggressive solvents (Tetrahydrofuran and Cyclohexanone).
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Unread postAuthor: BC Pneumatics » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:08 pm

My interpretation of this is that because all 4 ingredients are capable of dissolving PVC, any of these 3 should work to "prime" the pipe. The cleaner will work more slowly, as it lacks the more aggressive solvents (Tetrahydrofuran and Cyclohexanone).


That extra time could very well be what makes them non-primers.
The chemicals above evaporate very quickly.

In short- <a href="http://www.bcvids.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=23_31&products_id=48">Stay clean, Stay safe.</a>
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:29 pm

Brushing pure Acetone or MEK onto PVC will result in the dissolution of some of the material before the solvent evaporates, though not as much as standard primer is capable of dissolving.
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