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Sub-Calibre Saboted Ammo

Post about things you have launched or thought about launching. Also post about various materials used for building cannons. No posts about explosive projectiles!
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Sub-Calibre Saboted Ammo

Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:38 am

I had been advised a while ago by a fellow member that sub-calibre rounds could achieve more "penetration" as such, a small calibre round is fired with a sabot. The lighter weight of the small payload means faster velocity and a smaller projectile travelling faster than it normaly would.
The projectile is pictured here.

Image
Image

The head was made with an old milling cutter (H.S.S.). I treated it by getting it red hot and quenching it in oil, otherwise it might shatter.

The base or "ass end" of it was machined from acetal and has as wall thickness of approx .5mm.

I have not yet made the actual sabot yet, but have a good design in mind.
I plan to fire this from my hybrid (23mm) but i can also utilise my 33.7mm combustion?
Any ideas?

P.S. Thanks JSR
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Last edited by Novacastrian on Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: rna_duelers » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:46 am

It's not so much the higher speed its traveling at,it has also to do with how much area/mass there is for the penetration.

So you case hardened it so ti wouldn't shatter?That's a little confusing usually you don't case harden if you don't want it to be brittle.

Looks nice hope to see it doing some penetration on some nice targets.
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Unread postAuthor: Killjoy » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:50 am

Now thats some ammo with balls.

Thats looks great. Care to share your sabot idea with us?
Not knowing what yours is I'll go ahead and spit my idea out. You could lube the barrel and projectile and then use canned expadning foam to make a sabot, and then cut the projectile out and the foam so it would peel aways as the projectile left the barrel. Sorry just had to get this idea out of my head

And how much does the projectile weigh by the way?
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:01 am

The round has a weight of 14 grams, i designed it with the goal of penetrating 1/4 inch steel plate.
The sabot will weigh approx 4-5 grams (it will be made as thin as possible)
I also plan to make a "sacrificial cup" that goes onto the end of the barrel and slows the sabot upon exit of the barrel.
I will be using my hybrid for the test (not anytime soon) at a 4x mix, this means just under super-sonic speeds, (approx 950 fps with a force of 200 ft lbs).
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:46 am

Looking VERY good :D

how does the tail attach to the head?

Is the "sacrifical cup" idea in order to preserve the sabot? If that's the case, the impact will likely shatter them both. A better idea would be to line the muzzle with plasticine or similar ;)
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:47 am

Beatiful ammo!
Just create a sabot that will get torn off by air flow resistance when out of the barrel and getting airflow from front.
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:45 pm

The head just "clicks" onto the tail, i like your plasticine idea too JSR.
I don't care if i lose the sabot- i will only be making a few rounds :wink:
I have the intention of piercing 1/4 inch steel plate using my 23mm hybrid.
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Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:54 pm

post pics of your sabot when you are done, i am thinking of making one for a .22 air rifle pellet to be shot out of my 3/4" barrel.
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:21 pm

I have made the sabot, here we go..

Image
Image

All up it weighs 19grms, the sabot is approx 4.5grms.
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:53 am

Check out this, a round i made for my 33.7mm combustion, it weighs 100grms and has a big ass bb for the head.
I'll drill out the base tomorrow JSR :lol: It was moulded from 95duro Polyurethane.

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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:39 am

it just keeps getting better :) can't wait to see you test them
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:50 am

Thanks..Kicks at ground.. :)
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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:40 pm

If your 1/4" plate steel is as tough as mine, you may run into some trouble.

Great looking ammo though, I wish I had the equipment to make something like that.

Please post pics of what it does to the steel. When I shot a steel dart at it, it made a roughly sperical dent about 1/16" deep, and completely flattened the steel dart, and it was shot out of something with quite a bit more power than your hybrid. However, it wasn't hardened, so that may work in your favour.
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Unread postAuthor: Modderxtrordanare » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:38 pm

I think I just came a little. 8)
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:47 pm

DYI wrote:If your 1/4" plate steel is as tough as mine, you may run into some trouble.

Great looking ammo though, I wish I had the equipment to make something like that.

Please post pics of what it does to the steel. When I shot a steel dart at it, it made a roughly sperical dent about 1/16" deep, and completely flattened the steel dart, and it was shot out of something with quite a bit more power than your hybrid. However, it wasn't hardened, so that may work in your favour.


Hey DYI, what apparatus did you utilise for the acceleration of said dart?
Do you know how many fps was achieved? (approx is fine).
What size is your guns bore, oh and how much did your dart weigh?

To explain the H.S.S. head, normaly this kind of steel is hard as @!#$ and just as brittle. What i hoped to achieve through heating it was to actually soften it a little bit, (i think the correct term is "Anneal").
Otherwise it would just blow up upon impact with the steel plate.
In short i don't know how much i softened it but i hope it helps keep the head together long enough to pierce that sucker :D
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