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For copper: Epoxy or solder?

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For copper: Epoxy or solder?

Unread postAuthor: Tsukiten » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:00 pm

Hey guys, I'm starting to make a coaxial bb sniper that can hold up a decent PSI (I don't really know what's decent but I think 35~70 PSI :roll: ) out of copper... But the problem is, I've heard that solder isn't suited to hold that kind of pressure... Is that true and if not, how much pressure will it hold? Am I better off using epoxy or just make a spuddy outta PVC?

Waiting for replies! :shock:
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Unread postAuthor: hyldgaard » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:03 pm

solder will be stronger than epoxy, and 35-70psi really isnt a lot for a copper gun. normally, the restricting part is the valve youre using. look around the pneumatic showcase to get an idea of whats possible :)
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:03 pm

I would think solder bonds better than epoxy, because it actually "soaks in" to the metal. Marine epoxy will work well but I don't think it would be good for larger stuff. Ask Jack.
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Unread postAuthor: spanerman » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:04 pm

solder it.....stronger and is quicker
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Unread postAuthor: Tsukiten » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:05 pm

Okay understood :D woo imma make a metal gun!

(GOD YOU REPLY FAST :shock: 2 minutes 3 posts :shock: You guys rock!!!)
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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:29 pm

Small diameter type M copper pipe is rated for more than 500 psi, and a properly soldered pressure rated copper fitting is rated to something similar. Copper fittings are always weaker than the pipe itself.

Epoxied copper fittings, if done properly, should be good as long as you keep the pressure below 200 psi. If you want to use more than that, just take the time to solder them.
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Unread postAuthor: BigGrib » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:35 pm

Just think of a radiator of a car. That has to hold boiling water basically of pressures of up to 100 psi. Anyway go to home depot and get a basic torch kit starting at 12 bucks and get some flux and solder suitable for copper.
when you put the copper pieces together in the bell fittings or couplers flux it and then you want to heat it up not to red hot but a little bit before it. take your solder and touch it to a piece of metal that is not being hit by the flame. if the solder melts it will flow into the crack following the heat just keep doing that all the way around til you got yourself a nice joint.
just remember that the solder will follow the heat and you don't need to heat the copper up too hot or you will ruin the piece. anyway good luck
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Unread postAuthor: Tsukiten » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:39 pm

Okay but are there more kinds of solder? Where I live you can get a solder gun what heats the solder up for you and some solder, is that the proper stuff or is there more stronger stuff I should use?
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Unread postAuthor: BigGrib » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:44 pm

use the tips i put up cause you wont heat up the copper pipe sith a solder gun or iron. you're gonna want to get it at home depot cause there is different kinds of solder for copper pipe i would reccommend 5% Sil-Phos which you can get at home depot it comes in sticks about 14 inches long
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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:46 pm

Solder guns are for small wires, for pipe you need a propane or MAPP torch. The 95/5 solder is considered one of the better versions for pressure applications. I believe that it is tin/antimony, but don't quote me on that.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:14 pm

Low pressure? Slower than soldering?

Naaah.

The sales pitch from the "Just For Copper" (copper/brass epoxy) site says:

BENEFITS FOR JFC 010 AND JFC 050 SOLDERLESS COPPER BONDING ARE:

NO HEAT REQUIRED
FAST – UP TO 80% FASTER THAN HOT SOLDERING
BONDS WHEN PIPES ARE WET
BONDS ALL COPPER AND BRASS PIPES AND FITTINGS
100% LEAK FREE BOND EVERYTIME
TESTED TO 2,000psi, RATED AT 500psi ON RIGID COPPER PIPE UP TO 2-INCHES
CAN BE USED ON RIGID COPPER PIPE UP TO 10-INCHES AT REDUCED PRESSURE
MAKES 200 BONDS ON ½-INCH COPPER PIPE
BOTTLE HAS MINIMUM 12 MONTH SHELF LIFE AFTER OPENING.
CAN BE APPLIED IN SUB-FREEZING CONDITIONS
NO FIRE WATCH REQUIRED
MEETS ALL MECHANICAL REQUIREMENTS FOR COPPER PLUMBING
CAN BE USED ON HVAC – WILL NOT CONTAMINATE PEG OILS OR REFRIGERANTS


Personally I'ved used my assembly to 400psi.
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Unread postAuthor: BigGrib » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:22 pm

what is the setup time on that cause I am personally certified in brazing (soldering copper pipes together) and i know as soon as the pipe cools which takes all of maybe 2 minutes it is usable. and you say that is makes 200 bonds per half inch well hot soldering makes one big damn bond per half inch ...period.
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Unread postAuthor: Infernal Maveric » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:41 pm

With soldering copper or brass, you can make "But-fittings" where 2 bits of brass fitting/copper are soldered together while placed on each other, rather than with the insertion of the copper into the fitting. I wouldn't be too confident with copper epoxy being to safe to use that way, but soldering fittings like that is fine, and have used custom "but-fittings" up to 400PSI.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:06 pm

BigGrib wrote:what is the setup time on that cause I am personally certified in brazing (soldering copper pipes together) and i know as soon as the pipe cools which takes all of maybe 2 minutes it is usable. and you say that is makes 200 bonds per half inch well hot soldering makes one big damn bond per half inch ...period.


Eh...

That was about how many 1/2" pipe -> socket "bonds" could be made using the 50ml bottle I snaffled the text from.

The stuff grips as soon as you've joined and twisted the pipe in the socket then sets solid in about a minute or so.
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Unread postAuthor: BigGrib » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:18 pm

I see. Personally though since I have a brazing set up (oxy-acetelyne) it takes me honestly a less than a minute to braze a joint and then dunk it in the water to cool it, but for those who aren't fortunate enough to have a setup, the copper epoxy would work then. Good find.
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