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expanding ammo

Post about things you have launched or thought about launching. Also post about various materials used for building cannons. No posts about explosive projectiles!
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expanding ammo

Unread postAuthor: SpudFarm » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:46 pm

i want to make somekind of "hunting" bullet that expands like a rifle bullet does to do more damage when hitting a animal.

the pic is my thought and the target would be a tree.
i would like to shoot a tree and find a nice and clean entry and a completely blown apart exit and ofcourse the BIG hole.

2" diameter soft steel with a hole drilled in it and filled with molten lead almost to the top.

do you think this would have a chance to do any damage at mach one?

and if i cut grooves down the sides of it will it expand and become a mushroom(?) shape?
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:49 pm

You basically just described a normal bullet, although, I would see about using a softer material than steel, say copper pipe?

If you do this, you HAVE to show us via video.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudFarm » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:56 pm

ok then i use brass as the casing.. is that a better choise?

i hope to video tape every shot of my cannon :)
then i make a topic just for my videos if PCGUY approves it.
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:01 pm

Brass would work fine, I just suggested copper because it was cheaper (but I forget, your launcher costs $1200, so price really isn't a concern for you).

Speaking of bullets, there is a company (I believe Federal) that makes a jacketed round that expands nearly 3 times its normal size. It is a normal jacketed bullet with the addition of a piece of rubber near the tip. Upon impact, the lead pushes the rubber, which makes the shell expand more.

That may be an option you could consider.
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:03 pm

okay but a spudgun is no rifle, it won't treat that lead like playdough, hollow tip are for guns with the power to go straight through a body or two
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Unread postAuthor: SpudFarm » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:20 pm

and 10x and 200gram ammo is for guns that can blow five persons in half ;)

i go to the machiner man here "not Larda this time if i do it here i can get rid of those huge shipping costs" and get him to make the shells out of brass. :)

any imput will get tried :D
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:34 pm

Brass is getting pricey as well. How many slugs you plan on making?
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Unread postAuthor: SpudFarm » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:06 pm

i probably just find a long casing thing of soft metall and cut them up in piececafter i have filled it with lead.
after that i just drill the lead core out about 1/2" in there to get a hollow point
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:59 pm

Why not solid lead? It would expand a lot more.
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:14 am

judgment_arms wrote:Why not solid lead? It would expand a lot more.


I was just about to say that. So, agree!
A solid lead chunk would do the trick.
Why the casing?
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:46 am

For a hollowpoint to be effective, first of all you have to ensure it hits nose-first, that means either rifling or a hollow tail/fins.

Secondly, hollowpoints rely on velocity to expand when impacting with soft targets while still driving through the target, in your case it will probably be so heavy that it will just flatten out on the surface with very limited penetration.

As was pointed out, a solid tip will improve aerodynamics, keep the CG forward and aid expansion:

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Unread postAuthor: SpudFarm » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:23 am

then i will use fins on them.
mabe make them small and sabot them to make them go as fast as a "slow" speed fire arm.

i can get 5.5 30-06 up to mach two and that is 50grams.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:56 am

mabe make them small and sabot them to make them go as fast as a "slow" speed fire arm.


Why use small bullets and make them expand when you can just usea bigger heavy slug in the first place? The whole idea behind expanding ammunition is to make a hole bigger than the original diameter of the projectile - if you're using a saboteb bullet, it's defeating the (hollow?) point :roll: :D

sorry
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Unread postAuthor: THUNDERLORD » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:04 am

Hunting Hmmm.... I wouldn't recomend shooting animals. There are some real pests though, stuff living in/ near your house, etc.

Also When you think about it an air rifle or bow type arm is one of the ultimate survivalist tools.

That's actualy one of my goals to build a sturdy pneumatic capable of lasting several generations.
And that is capable of putting food on the table.

It's an interesting concept to design the pump and parts that are simple, sturdy and easily replaceable/repairable.(for example, some primitive airguns even used leather parts for seals) Powered by always accessible air!!!
For hunting, usualy penetration is needed more than expansion.

With low velocity and large bore the target already absorbs most of the energy of the bullet.
It's w/higher velocity, small diameter that the energy is absorbed by the backstop.

Also you mentioned brass for jackets but brass is a very brittle metal, almost as strong as steel but heavier.

That could be useful for something like a "Black Talon" bullet.
They were made by federal and were banned for civilans.
I saw a demo one before after expasion the hollow point had slots cut all the way into the HP and it had opened like a sharp claw!!!

I would suggest for extreme expasion lead with a massive hp almost like a backwards diabolo shaped pellet.(as long as it will shoot nose first).

I was tinkering w/ the idea of whether someone could purchase copper jackets(hollow) and fill them with a lead melted with mercury.
That would be almost like a clay bullet w/ the weight of lead!!!
Plus mercury is seriously poisonous.
Sure to be illegal and harmful to work with so be careful and if you shoot something w/ part mercury bullets it wouldn't be a good idea to eat it!!!
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Unread postAuthor: SpudFarm » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:06 am

because it is just a bit smaller so i can get fins on.
the expanding is to do more damage than a steel slug at the same size to soft objects.
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