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Steel ties

Post about things you have launched or thought about launching. Also post about various materials used for building cannons. No posts about explosive projectiles!
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Steel ties

Unread postAuthor: magnum9987 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:11 pm

I have some steel ties, and I plan to use them as ammo but I have some problems.
1) They are not .50 call like i want
2) THey are too long
3) They are not aerodynamic

1) I have a design for a sabot. I wrap the tie with either toilet paper or tissue paper. Then the end pointed inward to the chamber is dipped in grease. I am unsure if this will set on fire on ignition, and if it will not destroy itself before leaving the barrel.

2) I know the best thing for this problem is to buy a diamond saw. But it is too expensive, so i would rather get a steel file. If anyone could find a faster solution please let me know.

3) I am not sure how to approach this problem and would need some assistance here.

All help would be gladly accepted. Thank you
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Unread postAuthor: rednecktatertosser » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:18 pm

1) sabot is a good plan then

2) hacksaw

3) then its probably not the best ammo...
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Unread postAuthor: magnum9987 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:23 pm

THE ties are free as i have about twenty, each abput 8in long. And they would be awesome for damage picks.
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Unread postAuthor: iisthemuffin » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:25 pm

Well if your not trying for distance, then the aerodynamics arent exactly important. If your trying to make it fly nose first, just try waiting the front of it. If its heavy enough and its traveling fast enough the extra pieces in the front wont effect it going straight through things.
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Unread postAuthor: magnum9987 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:28 pm

But that reduces velocity and its damage. What i want is to obliterate a watermelon or an oak board! :twisted: No, that may not work for me. Distance and damage are very important to me.
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Unread postAuthor: pizlo » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:02 pm

A dremel with a lot of replacement sanding disks would do nicely, or just one metal bit, I would use some sort of foam as a sabot, and You can't have everything, you have to give up some damage for aerodynamics, and vice versa...
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Unread postAuthor: brogdenlaxmiddie » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:50 pm

Also, think of it this way. If its aerodynamic, you will create a hole the size of the circumfrence of the tie. (if its round) Whereas, if it tumbles in the air, you might hit it with more surface area. To me, more surface area does a lot more damage than just one hole.
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Re: Steel ties

Unread postAuthor: frankrede » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:59 pm

magnum9987 wrote:


2) I know the best thing for this problem is to buy a diamond saw. But it is too expensive, so i would rather get a steel file. If anyone could find a faster solution please let me know.



A diamond saw?
WTF
Since when did steel need to be cut by diamonds?
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Unread postAuthor: kablooie » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:36 am

brogdenlaxmiddie wrote:Also, think of it this way. If its aerodynamic, you will create a hole the size of the circumfrence of the tie. (if its round) Whereas, if it tumbles in the air, you might hit it with more surface area. To me, more surface area does a lot more damage than just one hole.


That's a good point, but you have to take into account the energy transfer. If you are firing at something hard (like sheet metal or something) and you hit it with the projectile going sideways, the force is distributed along the length of the projectile, which would make it less likely to puncture (for example it would make a dent). If the projectile hits on end, all the kinetic energy is concentrated on that one spot, increasing the likelihood that it would puncture and keep on going. Like if you throw a sharp pencil at someone, and it hits lengthwise it doesn't hurt (unless you can throw real hard) but if it hits on the point, it could draw blood. Take that into consideration too.

Edit: for shooting a watermelon, lengthwise might be more interesting, for a board, on end might be better. But that's reliant on power too.
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Unread postAuthor: starman » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:31 am

Have you been given the parental go-ahead to build your cannon yet? There will be plenty of time to perfect your ammo once your cannon is actually in your hands.

However, you'll find designing the perfect ammo on paper is going to be mostly supposition until you can actually test it. There are endless aspects to be tried and tested...what works well in one gun, may not in another.
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:17 pm

Add something light to the back, to act as a tail.
This can be fins made out of duct-tape or a piece of rope.
The drag from the fins/tail will keep the projectile straight.
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Unread postAuthor: brogdenlaxmiddie » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:06 pm

kablooie wrote:
brogdenlaxmiddie wrote:Also, think of it this way. If its aerodynamic, you will create a hole the size of the circumfrence of the tie. (if its round) Whereas, if it tumbles in the air, you might hit it with more surface area. To me, more surface area does a lot more damage than just one hole.


That's a good point, but you have to take into account the energy transfer. If you are firing at something hard (like sheet metal or something) and you hit it with the projectile going sideways, the force is distributed along the length of the projectile, which would make it less likely to puncture (for example it would make a dent). If the projectile hits on end, all the kinetic energy is concentrated on that one spot, increasing the likelihood that it would puncture and keep on going. Like if you throw a sharp pencil at someone, and it hits lengthwise it doesn't hurt (unless you can throw real hard) but if it hits on the point, it could draw blood. Take that into consideration too.

Edit: for shooting a watermelon, lengthwise might be more interesting, for a board, on end might be better. But that's reliant on power too.



Your right. It all comes down to what he wants to do though. If he wants something peirced, he needs it straight. If he wants to know down a wall like thing, then he needs it sideways....
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Unread postAuthor: TurboSuper » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:08 pm

I bought a diamond blade for my angle grinder for $13, the high value of diamonds is completely made-up.

But really, you wouldn't use diamonds to cut steel, an ordinary metal disc for an angle grinder works wonders, and it lasts MUCH longer than most Dremel tools.

It should still have plenty of power to bust a watermelon, even if it tumbles. Besides, if it hits it straight on, it may just go right through. You can build up the shot with electrical or duct tape so it fits snugly into the barrel.
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