Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 65 users online :: 3 registered, 0 hidden and 62 guests


Most users ever online was 155 on Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:40 am

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

suppressor question

Post about things you have launched or thought about launching. Also post about various materials used for building cannons. No posts about explosive projectiles!
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

suppressor question

Unread postAuthor: roughboy » Sun May 03, 2009 1:42 pm

Will your pneumatic cannon have less power/velocity by adding a suppressor?
  • 0

Boys do what they can, Men do what they want
User avatar
roughboy
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:43 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun May 03, 2009 1:49 pm

It depends on whether you add a suppressor to the end of your barrel or make holes in your existing barrel to make an integral suppressor.

Look up silencers/suppressors using the search function, I'm certain that any doubts or questions you might have have already been answered in detail elsewhere. Designs similar to those in the tutorial will work, but with pneumatics the emphasis must be on volume - make it as big as you're comfortable to live with.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Sun May 03, 2009 2:21 pm

This is something of a myth, propagated by two factors.

Firstly, people assume loud is more powerful. Even if the end result is identical, the lack of noise will have already affected how you look at what you're seeing. There was an experiment some time back where they looked at how wine tasters were affected by other stimuli.

Basically, long story short, they took two glasses of identical white wine, and coloured one of them to appear red (without the knowledge of the taster), which then affected how the wine was described. They saw a red wine, so they were expecting to taste a red wine. Obviously, blindfolding them stopped them being tricked.

If you want to observe this effect, try getting someone to eat baked beans you've dyed blue, or give someone their coffee in a glass rather than a mug. The fact that one thing has changed affects their view of the whole, and if they consent to eat/drink whatever you've concocted, they'll probably comment on the funny taste.

Similarly, the same experiment also took two glasses of identical white wine, but described one as cheap plonk and the other as something quite fancy. The researcher in the room played the part of each being bad or good (respectively), and like with the colour, the tasters gave different descriptions of each. No researcher tricking them, and no descriptions given, they could work out it was the same wine.

Again, you can try this at home. Any two identical foods (you can use baked beans again if you want), just portray them as being different brands/tins/ages/somethings, and say one tastes icky and the other good (before they start trying them!), people will probably agree.

So part of the problem is mental trickery. If it sounds quiet, you don't expect it to be powerful, so when you look at the carnage, your view of it is already polarised.

Secondly, there are some suppressors that do contain devices known as "wipes", which are designed to slow slightly supersonic bullets down to subsonic levels so that they don't have a sonic shockwave, hence making them quieter. This obviously does affect power.

I'll assume you have no intention to build a suppressor with a wipe in it, so the points that Jack makes above stand.
  • 0

Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
User avatar
Ragnarok
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5339
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:23 am
Location: The UK
Reputation: 8

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun May 03, 2009 2:30 pm

Removable silencers can actually increase performance, albeit not significantly, as in this test I performed here:

Some silencers like the integral one fitted to the H&K MP5SD slow down supersonic ammunition in order to remove the sonic "crack", but at the same time reducing muzzle energy. Most silencers however do not affect muzzle velocity and in some cases actually increase the speed by a few feet per second.

I did a test recently, I tried two 5 shot strings with my Daystate Mk3 with and without silencer. In between strings I refilled the rifle to the same pressure. Here are the results in feet per second:

First, without silencer - 860, 860, 870, 869, 872 (866.2 average)

With the Daystate airstream CF silencer fitted - 877, 880, 884, 882, 883 (881.2 average)

This gives an average increase in velocity of 15 feet per second - in practical terms, an insignificant increase, which you'd never notice without a chrony, but interesting nonetheless.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Sun May 03, 2009 3:48 pm

well if I may add something...
...a suppressor won't make accuracy worse.. in fact it will improve it as it greatly reduces muzzle blast which might affect projectile stability after leaving the barrel
  • 0

Children are the future

unless we stop them now
User avatar
POLAND_SPUD
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5405
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:43 pm
Country: Israel (il)
Reputation: 10

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Sun May 03, 2009 4:32 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:A suppressor won't make accuracy worse.

Quite right. The idea that they do is another myth linked to silencers with wipes in them - which can cause accuracy issues.

Generally, if a silencer is supposed to have a negative effect (beyond increasing the size and bulk of what it's attached to), then a lot of these are myths connected to silencers with wipes.
  • 0

Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
User avatar
Ragnarok
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5339
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:23 am
Location: The UK
Reputation: 8

Unread postAuthor: roughboy » Mon May 04, 2009 11:33 am

Does your gun barrel and the silencer barrel where the holes are, need to be the same size or not?
  • 0

Boys do what they can, Men do what they want
User avatar
roughboy
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:43 am
Reputation: 0

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Mon May 04, 2009 11:58 am

POLAND_SPUD wrote:well if I may add something...
...a suppressor won't make accuracy worse.. in fact it will improve it as it greatly reduces muzzle blast which might affect projectile stability after leaving the barrel


Using a muzzle brake, compensator, silencer, suppressor, or anything to reduce muzzle blast does affect accuracy. Even chamber size to barrel size so the blast is reduced make a difference.

Attached is an early composite photo of a high speed t shirt launch where muzzle blast and a corner of the t shirt being loose cause a very early tumble.

Fixing our muzzle blast with a muzzle brake and modifying our shirt roll improved the range and accuracy.
  • 0

Attachments
TumbleComposite1.jpg
T Shirt tumble in 5 feet
User avatar
Technician1002
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5190
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:10 am
Reputation: 14

Return to Construction Materials/Ammo Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'