Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 62 users online :: 6 registered, 0 hidden and 56 guests


Most users ever online was 155 on Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:40 am

Registered users: Bing [Bot], csitas, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

UHMW test rounds

Post about things you have launched or thought about launching. Also post about various materials used for building cannons. No posts about explosive projectiles!
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Tue May 19, 2009 12:38 am

jagerbond wrote:Thanks for everyone's interest. I posted the 1.5", 1.7" and 2" varieties on the web site. http://ultimatespudgun.com/index.php?cPath=50 .5, .75", 1", 2.5", 3" material is on the way.

Mike
Sureshot / http://www.ultimatespudgun.com


:D Sweet. Would it take much to make them with "Foating" rings? The rings would seal on fireing, but would have very low friction and would work in iron, copper, PVC, and cellular core ABS.

I noticed that pistons for PVC, ABS, or iron are not interchangable when I started making piston valves. You may want to spec them to the barrel material instead of just Sched 40 material. Someone with an ABS cannon may be dissapointed if these almost fit, but not quite.

I may order some for the 3 inch QDV I plan to build to use as a valve when you get them in stock. :D
  • 0

User avatar
Technician1002
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5190
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:10 am
Reputation: 14

Unread postAuthor: USGF » Tue May 19, 2009 3:27 am

Technician1002 wrote:
:D Sweet. Would it take much to make them with "Foating" rings? The rings would seal on fireing, but would have very low friction and would work in iron, copper, PVC, and cellular core ABS.

I noticed that pistons for PVC, ABS, or iron are not interchangable when I started making piston valves. You may want to spec them to the barrel material instead of just Sched 40 material. Someone with an ABS cannon may be dissapointed if these almost fit, but not quite.

I may order some for the 3 inch QDV I plan to build to use as a valve when you get them in stock. :D


Tech, we made a few that had deeper O-ring grooves. Problem is, the o-ring would not give enough friction to hold the round in the bore. Darn things slide right out. We will research an ideal size. We could produce various sizes but it would increase cost to stock too many sizes.
  • 0

User avatar
USGF
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:39 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Tue May 19, 2009 3:41 am

USGF wrote:
Technician1002 wrote:
:D Sweet. Would it take much to make them with "Foating" rings? The rings would seal on fireing, but would have very low friction and would work in iron, copper, PVC, and cellular core ABS.

I noticed that pistons for PVC, ABS, or iron are not interchangable when I started making piston valves. You may want to spec them to the barrel material instead of just Sched 40 material. Someone with an ABS cannon may be dissapointed if these almost fit, but not quite.

I may order some for the 3 inch QDV I plan to build to use as a valve when you get them in stock. :D


Tech, we made a few that had deeper O-ring grooves. Problem is, the o-ring would not give enough friction to hold the round in the bore. Darn things slide right out. We will research an ideal size. We could produce various sizes but it would increase cost to stock too many sizes.


Use a slightly larger o ring so the ring expansion is just enough to hold it in place. It's OK for the round to be loose in the rings.

My video on using o rings show this well. The piston is held and requires a shake to move it. The loose rings permit use in a range of barrel tolerances.

If you haven't seen it, it's here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbDiZiRVrnk
  • 0

User avatar
Technician1002
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5190
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:10 am
Reputation: 14

Unread postAuthor: USGF » Tue May 19, 2009 4:24 am

Tech, I did see your video in the past. My concern is the accuracy VS. velocity issue. In the BL series of guns, power or more correctly, lack of power has not been an issue. We will see what Mike comes up with.

Good point, on the ability of the oversized O-ring to hold and seal in the bore. Still the issue of projectile concentricity in the bore remains. I was thinking along the line of a plastic cup style seal that snaps into a groove just like an o-ring. Like a lighter cheaper version of a brake cylinder seal.

Since these are an obscure part (if made at all), we may be forced to machine some molds for these. Mold them from a milk jug type plastic. These would conform to a variety of bore sizes yet center the round perfectly. In theory anyway :wink:
  • 0

User avatar
USGF
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:39 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: CasinoVanart » Tue May 19, 2009 5:07 am

I say loose the o rings and use a flared tail end. Less friction means more velocity ;)
  • 0

User avatar
CasinoVanart
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:10 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jagerbond » Tue May 19, 2009 5:27 am

CasinoVanart wrote:I say loose the o rings and use a flared tail end. Less friction means more velocity ;)


Cutting it out of 2.5" will elevate the cost substantially. Like USGF said the projectile stays concentric in the barrel. There is very little friction like stated before just enough to hold the round in the barrel plus we're using Superlube™.

Mike
Sureshot / http://www.ultimatespudgun.com
  • 0

User avatar
jagerbond
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Hawaii
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue May 19, 2009 5:08 pm

Great stuff, have you considered a harder (steel?) core when it comes to punching holes in harder materials? In the vein of Armor Piercing, Composite Rigid rounds?
  • 0

Last edited by jackssmirkingrevenge on Tue May 19, 2009 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: jagerbond » Tue May 19, 2009 5:20 pm

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:Great stuff, have you considered a harder (steel?) core when it comes to punching holes in harder materials? In the vein of Armor Piercing, Composite Rigid rounds?


We did use steel inserts I just never photographed the setup, but I will update soon. The photos in the beginning of the thread we're taken after steel insert rounds. We will load up the 625 with carbide and see if we can penetrate that pesky 3/16 C channel.

Mike
Sureshot Inc. / http://www.ultimatespudgun.com
  • 0

Attachments
DSCF0156.JPG
1/8 plate steel
User avatar
jagerbond
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Hawaii
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue May 19, 2009 5:34 pm

I might have missed that, over 500 new posts after a four day absence and I'm trying to keep up ;)
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: jeepkahn » Tue May 19, 2009 5:38 pm

HMMM.. maybe an insert round combo that would be more of a "spitzer" shaped round with a tungsten insert...
  • 0


jeepkahn
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 747
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:11 pm
Location: Triad, NC, USA
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue May 19, 2009 5:46 pm

jeepkahn wrote:HMMM.. maybe an insert round combo that would be more of a "spitzer" shaped round with a tungsten insert...


I would say that the best idea is to have a small calibre insert capable of aerodynamic stability through fins or a hollow tail and fly separately - ie in a discarding sabot - because an integral insert might be effective at close range but due to a poorer ballistic coeffient velocity and therefore penetrating power will taber off rapidly as it goes further from the muzzle.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: jeepkahn » Wed May 20, 2009 8:36 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:
jeepkahn wrote:HMMM.. maybe an insert round combo that would be more of a "spitzer" shaped round with a tungsten insert...


I would say that the best idea is to have a small calibre insert capable of aerodynamic stability through fins or a hollow tail and fly separately - ie in a discarding sabot - because an integral insert might be effective at close range but due to a poorer ballistic coeffient velocity and therefore penetrating power will taber off rapidly as it goes further from the muzzle.


For a discarding sabot, you could use a muchless dense/less costly material as well, maintain lighter weight....
  • 0


jeepkahn
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 747
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:11 pm
Location: Triad, NC, USA
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jook13 » Wed May 20, 2009 7:05 pm

I saw these for sale on the web site. I will be sure to order some this friday when I get my paycheck. I have another TV what needs destoryin'.
  • 0

I like to play blackjack. I'm not addicted to gambling, I'm addicted to sitting in a semi-circle.
User avatar
jook13
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:39 pm
Location: Prescott Arizona
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: starman » Wed May 20, 2009 7:19 pm

CasinoVanart wrote:I say loose the o rings and use a flared tail end. Less friction means more velocity ;)


I'm with Casino. Shave the sides down to where it looks like giant pellet...only the front ball and edge of the rear skirt "riding" the barrel.

Have you thought about dimpling the windward face like a golf ball? You could also front weight it with lead inserts...drill in from the rear to leave the tough surface intact....I know, just more manufacturing detail...just thinking off the top of my head here.
  • 0

User avatar
starman
Donating Moderator
Donating Moderator
 
Posts: 3041
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:45 am
Location: Simpsonville, SC
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jagerbond » Wed May 20, 2009 7:40 pm

It is the beauty of CNC lathe. I will take recommendations and R&D new designs for optimization. If you guys write HP in the order comments and give dimensions we will size a hollow point for carrying.. "stuff" Our test round HPs would occasionally lose there pay load but retained shape and usability even with the shots to steel.

These HP rounds do sing with a steel insert. :shock:

Check out the 1.7s right from the lathe.

Mike
Sureshot Inc. / http://www.ultimatespudgun.com
  • 0

Attachments
UHMW 1.jpg
1.7" rounds
User avatar
jagerbond
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Hawaii
Reputation: 0

PreviousNext

Return to Construction Materials/Ammo Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], csitas, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'