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JSR wants a lathe/mill thread -> JSR buys Sherline

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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue May 17, 2011 11:10 pm

LeMaudit wrote:I might even be a bit jealous :D


:shock:

Fuçk me, it must be good!

Thanks for the tips, the guy is asking for just over $1000 for it and it "comes with 3 and 4 jaw chucks, 2 face plates, cooling system, stand, switch gear and lots of tools" - bargain?

Here it is:
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue May 17, 2011 11:35 pm

what about proxxon mills ? I heard they are relatively cheap and high quality
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue May 17, 2011 11:55 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:what about proxxon mills ? I heard they are relatively cheap and high quality


... but wouldn't it be more worthwhile to buy a used higher spec lathe for the same money, assuming it's in good condition?
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Unread postAuthor: dewey-1 » Wed May 18, 2011 12:37 am

Have you found out about whether it is single or 3 phase yet?
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed May 18, 2011 12:39 am

dewey-1 wrote:Have you found out about whether it is single or 3 phase yet?


Not yet, sent a messager to the seller.

edit: confirmed, single phase :D will give the guy a call when I'm back in epoxyland.

Looks like it's one of these modelsso I expect it to be fairly old.
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Unread postAuthor: Heimo » Wed May 18, 2011 6:30 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:
POLAND_SPUD wrote:what about proxxon mills ? I heard they are relatively cheap and high quality


... but wouldn't it be more worthwhile to buy a used higher spec lathe for the same money, assuming it's in good condition?


In my opinion I would rather go with the lathe, you can do some milling operations on a lathe with a milling attachment, but you can not do turning operations on a vertical mill (you can do turning on a horizontal mill but I don't think they make those anymore)

that lathe you pictured is also a machine capable of a lot more than one of those proxxon products, I checked a few reviews of the proxxon mill, there was quite a few cases where the z axis had about 1/4 turn of play in it, I won't buy it...
besides if you buy a new lathe with no tooling included, you should be prepared to pay at least as much for the tooling needed as you payed for the lathe.

also from what I can see from the pic, it does not appear that that myford have been abused in it's lifetime, I can't see anything obvious that is missing (or broken) that should be there...
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed May 18, 2011 6:41 am

Heimo wrote:it does not appear that that myford have been abused in it's lifetime, I can't see anything obvious that is missing (or broken) that should be there...


For some reason I take comfort in the fact that the stand is painted in a similar colour :) my intention is to go and see it, take a few pictures and see what you lot think. Probably some time next week.
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Wed May 18, 2011 7:52 am

When you go to see it be sure to check the carriage travel from one end to the other for smooth operation. Ask him to turn something or let you take it for a test drive. Looks good in the picture. The stand comes with it? Correct? The motor mount brackets may/may not need to be mounted on the stand.

Check for cracks in the bed, all bracket mounting holes, tail stock and the head. Also check the belt tensioner for smooth operation. 1000 is a good price for the lot, but that doesn't mean you should have to make 1000 more investment to make it user friendly.

If all is good and with the tooling, I'd pay 1000 for it.
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Unread postAuthor: Labtecpower » Wed May 18, 2011 8:55 am

also, check the head for play.

You can also put a piece of round bar in it, and let it spin. In this way you can see if it is well centered.

do some turning on it, and measure it with digital calipers, if it is exactly the size you wanted +/- about 0,1 mm, as it has no digital position indicators.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed May 18, 2011 10:05 am

The following is an excerpt from an (Almost TL;DR :D) e-mail from LeMaudit, he makes some very good points which I agree with:

Remember, this is a "real" lathe, but maybe not the funniest. Your learning curve will be more difficult, the machine is more dangerous and heavier. If you want to cut and drill long steel bars, to thread them, this is the way to go (BTW check carefully the threading capability and ask to see it running too!) . But a lathe is a limited tool, you can only do pieces with a rotary, a "revolution" shape. I'm afraid you will miss the possibility to cut a transversal groove on a tube like cutting an ejection port, drill and thread perpecticular holes, etc... This, a lathe can't do, you need at least a milling column attachment to it.

Try to think hard what type of job you want to do, and what size. If you describe me those, I can tell if you'll be happy with your lathe, or just miss a milling capability most of the time ;-)
Remember that it's relatively easy to find ready to use tubes for spudding. But it's difficult to drill and cut and make attachments around them. Except for grooving, threading and center-drilling, a lathe would not do much more for you I'm afraid. Of course, if your goal is to make MiniBoys, then it will help. But I made the MiniBoy at least 50% on the mill. And I could have done 100% on the mill with a bit of creativity. I could not have use the lathe to replace anything I did on the mill though. Look the process of my cuts in "Machining the MiniBoy" thread, or others on my website. The lathe is mandatory to cut and turn long bars. But if it is a short piece, like say a sabot, then a mill+rotatry table could do it, by holding it in the rotary table, approach an end mill closer and turn the rotary table to rotate the piece and let the side of the end mill cut it.

I was thinking about something easy to grasp to compare your Myford and my Sherline (or other miniature lathe):
Your Myford is a vintage car, with a lot of potential, It's *relatively* cheap to buy it used, but you'll need to restore it a bit, buy missing pieces maybe, and learn to drive it and love the sound of the V8 engine ;-)
My Sherline is little asian roadster. You buy it and it is *maybe* a bit more expensive, but you drive it out of the box, have fun with it, there's lot of after market pieces for it and if you break something you replace it without breaking the bank :-D

To be honest, to love using an old tool like that, I believe you need to be a former machinist of some sort, and have a lot of respect with a good ol'quality tool. Myself, I prefer buy and use and trash.
It's not that I don't take care of it of course, but for example I've just replaced the mill column, not because it was worn out, but because I wanted something new to play with. Like I would change the hard top of my little roadster, change the aluminum wheels or make a different paint job :-D

Also, check again the prices: For about the same price of the MyFord, you have a new Sherline lathe + a mill column attachment.


While owning any piece of old machinery is great, I fear this one would probably be wasted on me, and for the same money I could get something maybe a bit less hardcore but more suited to my needs.

I could still negotiate a price for the Myford and resell it if anyone wants to pay the freight from epoxyland ;)
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Unread postAuthor: velocity3x » Wed May 18, 2011 10:38 am

JSR,
1. There are people who buy vintage machines and find great joy in restoring / using / admiring / reselling / collecting / etc..

2. There are people who buy machines to use for their designed purpose.

I assume you are in the 2nd category. Buying a vintage machine may divert you down a road you may not want to travel. My feeling is "never buy a machine older than yourself" unless you are in category #1.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed May 18, 2011 10:52 am

velocity3x wrote:JSR,
1. There are people who buy vintage machines and find great joy in restoring / using / admiring / reselling / collecting / etc..

2. There are people who buy machines to use for their designed purpose.


Very fair points. I already made a category one decision and frankly, it's enough ;)
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Wed May 18, 2011 6:36 pm

JSR wrote:Lathe! Mill! Hooray!


Oh my God, JSR is getting proper machining facilities. You guys do know Judgement day is this saturday, right? :D


Also, as to buying old equipment- yes, it may require some initial fix-ups, but also know that there is a reason many old machines are still around. People weren't so cheap and greedy back then, so the stuff was overbuilt and high quality.

But, in the end I guess you won't need something so heavy-duty if you're just making small stuff. You know better than I what your intentions are.
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Unread postAuthor: jor2daje » Wed May 18, 2011 10:51 pm

I faced a similar decision when i was looking at getting my lathe, I could have gotten a new and cheap import lathe that I probably could have gotten by with but instead I found a 1920's south bend that I got for free, my suggestion would just be to keep looking. I almost pulled the trigger on a $600 but after a week or two of waiting and several wanted ads I got this lathe that is perfect what what I do and now is worth a few hundred bucks, that I am now trading to someone for a full sherline lathe/mill set that I can use at university.

Of course I live in southern California where there are tools a plenty and lots of wealthy people willing to part with for cheap, I dunno if you'll be so lucky in epoxy land.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed May 18, 2011 11:33 pm

Repent for the end is nigh :D

Fnord wrote:But, in the end I guess you won't need something so heavy-duty if you're just making small stuff. You know better than I what your intentions are.


That is pretty much what I concluded on balance.

Jor2daje, thanks for the advice, I definitely don't want to jump in too quickly on this one.
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