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3D printers/CNC mills

Post about things you have launched or thought about launching. Also post about various materials used for building cannons. No posts about explosive projectiles!
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:40 pm

This is why I am not now inclined to convert the Sherline. On the other hand, I don't think a "router" type machine with limited vertical travel will be adequate for my purposes either.
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Unread postAuthor: USGF » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:55 pm

JSR,

There is a ton of info re-doing these to CNC

http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed- ... 44991.html

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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:10 pm

For that price, isn't it easier to just get this?
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:18 pm

I guess there is a reason why that thing is called a CNC engraver not a mill
:wink:

anyway found something cool... I know you'll find it sooner or later but here have a look:
http://hackaday.com/2011/11/14/build-yo ... d-printer/
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:37 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:I guess there is a reason why that thing is called a CNC engraver not a mill


True, but to be honest even for just cutting things precisely out of sheets or shallow engraving it would be worth having, for example I can picture having it put together a firearm sized body in modular pieces, like for example an AR platform - not to mention you could make tons of stuff that's not necessarily spud related to help it pay for itself ;)

Some different views of the same thing, looks pretty cool to my untrained eye.

anyway found something cool...


Isn't that how this works?
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:41 pm

yup but the important word you should have noticed there was resin
:D

Some different views of the same thing, looks pretty cool to my untrained eye
hmm sure it isn't as good as it should be but yeah I wish I had it
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Unread postAuthor: USGF » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:12 pm

JSR,

I used to run some large routers. The manufacturer would claim the ability to cut aluminum etc. Not to make nice parts you can't... A mill is a whole different beast. If you have a block of aluminum 25 mm thick and you want to carve a good size cavity with a 6mm endmill, a router will not do it. You will really want a mill esp if you want to finish in a reasonable time frame. Yeah, a router might be able to do it. You'd have to do some hoop jumping.

I thought of converting these to make jewelry for clients.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdazWTGF ... re=related


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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:56 am

USGF wrote:I used to run some large routers. The manufacturer would claim the ability to cut aluminum etc. Not to make nice parts you can't... A mill is a whole different beast. If you have a block of aluminum 25 mm thick and you want to carve a good size cavity with a 6mm endmill, a router will not do it. You will really want a mill esp if you want to finish in a reasonable time frame. Yeah, a router might be able to do it. You'd have to do some hoop jumping.


I see what you mean, though again I'm picturing smaller intricate parts - as an appropriate example (for size, not because I intend to copy your design ;)), do you think the cheap-ish Chinese router I linked to earlier be able to turn out the metal parts for your AR trigger kit in a reasonable time frame from aluminium?

Would it also be appropriate to say cut parts of of 6mm acrylic/polycarbonate sheet for example?

I thought of converting these to make jewelry for clients.


Extremely limited travel on the Y though, suppose it would be enough for jewellry but I would need a little more:

Table size 7 7/8 x 2 3/4, X-Y travel 5 17/64 & 1 13/16 respectively


edit:

this and this come up to $925 posted, and looks a bit more serious than the generic chinese 3020 models... plus the seller has 100% feedback.

Image

It really is quite pretty...

This one also looks nice.

Image

Hmmm...
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Unread postAuthor: USGF » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:33 am

JSR,

You're not gonna believe it, we have that same black unit from china here at the shop. Belongs to one of the guys. The axis under the table (Y) is pretty stiff. I have issue with X and Z. They both use round rod ways mounted only at each end. Same with the lower machine actually, these type of ways are junk. They have the least amount of rigidity at the midpoint of travel. Right where you tend to work.

Scott was trying to machine aluminum with it. Not happy. Turns out it is not a good choice for a 3D printer either since the under gantry distance is small. You can make parts only a few inches tall.

Is the Proxon too expensive even in Europe?

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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:02 am

USGF wrote:Scott was trying to machine aluminum with it. Not happy. Turns out it is not a good choice for a 3D printer either since the under gantry distance is small. You can make parts only a few inches tall.


That's a shame.

Is the Proxon too expensive even in Europe?


how about this one?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Proxxon-MF70- ... 483fd79343

seems it includes the drivers, would come to a reasonable 1400 euros after shipping and tax.

X Axis 162mm
Y axis 86mm
Z Axis 85mm

Still...
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Unread postAuthor: Heimo » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:43 am

what jack really wants is one of these...
link
:D

but maybe something like this would fit better into the epoxy cave..

link
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Unread postAuthor: dewey-1 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:59 am

JSR

I found this interesting from a physical comparison of size.

http://www.hossmachine.info/Mill_Comparisons.html
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:32 pm

Thanks Duane... goodness the Sherline is tiny!

Heimo wrote:link


Sexy...

... but I don't think I should start with a mill.

I know bugger all about 3D modelling, g-code, indeed even anything but basic electronics, so I have tons to learn before I even begin to have the ability to take advantage of the capabilities of a powerful mill.

From what I've seen a small router will require the same mastery of software and technique, without the probability of destroying itself or large amounts of valuable material in the process. It should also be capable of churning out small parts that could be the beginning of a commercial venture, not necessarily spud related, and who knows, hybrid cartridges ;)

By the time I'm more proficient, then it would be worthwhile getting my hands on something beefier (and funds will have time to accumulate in the meantime...)

Damn, it's Christmas soon!

:D

edit: regarding this parellel port paraphernalia I seem to require, is this obligatory or can some kind of adapter be used? I'm reliably informed a virtual machine running Linux can be setup on my current PC, but my flashy new doesn't-even-support-a-3.5-disk-drive motherboard unsurprisingly lacks the requisite LPT connection.
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Unread postAuthor: al-xg » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:34 pm

Image

You can install a distribution like Ubuntu inside Windows, and run it like any other program. In this particular case, it's called Wubi.
A virtual machine would also work, a dual boot also.


3D modelling is very easy to pick up nowdays, you could most probably learn to model basic parts and generate G-code within a day.
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Unread postAuthor: USGF » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:15 pm

JSR,

Yes, the Y axis is short on the Proxon. It does meets the "small" criteria. The router: Unless you want to start making small plaques, drink coasters, pen holders, inlays for pool cues and other typical router work, I'd still lean in some other direction.

Router vs Mill: The software and need for drawings etc. is no different. Your front end will be Mach3 in almost any case. Leave the 3d modeling aside for now. You can cut things with straight g-code. Hand coding a small bracket is not as hard or mysterious as they make it. Start with simple wire frame drawings. Dewy I bet would be more than helpful in getting you rolling. I'd send drawings too.

Once entering CAM, it is more involved but not impossible to master. When you have no tool changer, you evolve techniques to overcome or minimize the lack of the changer. Our favorite was to use a small endmill to do everything. Takes a long time but it makes it doable to make a pretty involved part with a single press of the green button.

Guess my final argument. Even with persons as "experienced" as myself or Mike, it was virtually impossible to make nice metal parts with Scott's router. You can drill holes in a circuit board, you can mechanical etch PC boards, you could with a lot work set up a pick and place for installing electronics components. Course you can cut plastic and wood parts. You will not machine AR grips as nice as Mike makes them. :(

You are going to get a PC with Mach3, a driver board, motors and drive screws of some kind. Same basic stuff in a router or a mill. Optimize the machine whether router or mill to cut the materials you intend.

USGF

PS, Scott is using a Smoothstepper to interface his drives to the machine. This is a USB based solution.
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