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6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bolts.

Post about things you have launched or thought about launching. Also post about various materials used for building cannons. No posts about explosive projectiles!
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6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bolts.

Unread postAuthor: Hurricane Air Arms » Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:42 am

Unlike our good friends across the Tasman and Pacific, Australians have basically struggled to create complex air guns simply due to a lacking of precise materials.

The Brass? Big Deal right?
After stumbling across a hobby shop, I asked the owner what his internal diameters were, he pointed out, firstly, his brass tubing which to my delight, went in increments so perfect, that every single size TELESCOPED inside the next and previous!

Like so
Image

This is a HUGE solution to anyone wanting to build blow forward or blowback air guns because these brass tubes fit so PERFECTLY inside on another, that there is a seamless seal. Apparently I'm the only one ecstatic about this... :bounce:

The 6mm Carbon Fibre Tubes (**Airgasm**)
It got so desperate once, I searched for a 6mm Orca Drill Bit (Very long and expensive drill bit) so that I could just drill out my own tightbore. In the end, the Hobby Shop across the road (figure of speech) had 2, 4, 6, 8, 10mm Internal Diameter tubes! (barrels, cough).

So Aussies can now build (successfully and without great strain on fine workmanship) blow back/forward air guns, and use them in tightbore CARBON F'ing FIBRE BARRELS!

Seriously though, carbon fibre? No rust, light weight and tight bore 8)

As mentioned in another post however; Be careful cutting Carbon Fibre Tubing, it FRAYS easily and typically goes for $27 per metre.

Hope this helps.
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Re: 6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bo

Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:14 pm

I'm going to say this before anyone gets hurt.
Carbon fiber tubes sold in hobby shops are not suitable for airgun barrels (a blow gun maybe)
They are terrible at holding pressure, the fiber is most likely linear only without wrapping (reason why it frays easily when you cut it). They're resistant to bending and good for structure building like for a model airplane or you could make arrows from it but never apply internal pressure to it.
If you really want to use it, epoxy several tubes one inside each other for thicker wall (I'd use at least 3 tubes, which is equivalent of a pretty decent real airgun/airsoft barrel cost vise) or fit it inside a larger tube (brass/alu/pressure rated pvc etc).
The brass tubes however should be safe for the pressure you're using atm.
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Re: 6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bo

Unread postAuthor: Hurricane Air Arms » Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:05 am

wyz2285 wrote:I'm going to say this before anyone gets hurt.
Carbon fiber tubes sold in hobby shops are not suitable for airgun barrels (a blow gun maybe)
They are terrible at holding pressure, the fiber is most likely linear only without wrapping (reason why it frays easily when you cut it). They're resistant to bending and good for structure building like for a model airplane or you could make arrows from it but never apply internal pressure to it.
If you really want to use it, epoxy several tubes one inside each other for thicker wall (I'd use at least 3 tubes, which is equivalent of a pretty decent real airgun/airsoft barrel cost vise) or fit it inside a larger tube (brass/alu/pressure rated pvc etc).
The brass tubes however should be safe for the pressure you're using atm.


I never said Carbon Fibre should be used for pressurising HPA. That is very dangerous.

Carbon fibre simply makes for a good barrel. Definately NOT for an air tank.

My showcase .240 in the Airsoft Forum has proven that carbon fibre is well and truly suitable as a barrel. I hope that's what you mean. This particular barrel of mine has been used for shots exceding 120psi.
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Re: 6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bo

Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:31 am

I do mean they are terrible for barrels. For low pressure maybe and light ammo they may work but I definitely would not advise it to others for general use as barrels.
There have been a topic about carbon fiber tube as barrel before and pictures of split/exploded carbon fiber tubes were shown.
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Re: 6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bo

Unread postAuthor: Hurricane Air Arms » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:40 am

wyz2285 wrote:I do mean they are terrible for barrels. For low pressure maybe and light ammo they may work but I definitely would not advise it to others for general use as barrels.
There have been a topic about carbon fiber tube as barrel before and pictures of split/exploded carbon fiber tubes were shown.


They mustn't have been proper Carbon Fibre tubes, or potentially bad builds. Since I have a lot of experience with air guns in both single shot and automated air guns. I stand by what I say, thanks for your opinion though :wink:
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Re: 6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bo

Unread postAuthor: Zeus » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:09 am

I concur with Wyz, having used arrows as barrels, they aren't ideal. Now, sleeve said tubing in brass or apply some fibreglass matting and you have an effective barrel. The failure mode of axial carbon fibre under hoop stress is quite unimpressive, splitting much like bamboo.

What's the internal finish like? Ideally you want a mirror finish, I use a cleaning rod loaded with abrasive to polish barrels. I've not known many carbon fibre tubes to have a good finish, however yours being from a manufacturer may be different. Any chance of finding a list of their products of manufacturing options?

And g'day from yet another Victorian
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Re: 6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bo

Unread postAuthor: Hurricane Air Arms » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:49 am

Zeus wrote:I concur with Wyz, having used arrows as barrels, they aren't ideal. Now, sleeve said tubing in brass or apply some fibreglass matting and you have an effective barrel. The failure mode of axial carbon fibre under hoop stress is quite unimpressive, splitting much like bamboo.

What's the internal finish like? Ideally you want a mirror finish, I use a cleaning rod loaded with abrasive to polish barrels. I've not known many carbon fibre tubes to have a good finish, however yours being from a manufacturer may be different. Any chance of finding a list of their products of manufacturing options?

And g'day from yet another Victorian


I can't help but disagree having first hand evidence and experience with them.

I ran steel wool through mine with a pull-through a few times. I have never had a carbon fibre barrel from CFA (Carbon Fibre Aus, Warragul) fail.

Perhaps that's the difference here. Mine seem to be manyfactured tohigher standards, whereas whatever wyz may have used or seen, probably fell below building standards.
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Re: 6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bo

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Re: 6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bo

Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:42 pm

Won't argue with you, since you said you haven't went beyond 120 PSI. Myself haven't build anything bellow a couple hundred PSI for a while (and of course I have built semi and full auto airguns, just FYI).
The tubes I used are for model airplane building and the mechanical properties are very good if used correctly.
I simply don't want to see anybody get hurt since carbon fiber tubes are easy to get on eBay (I can't see them to be better quality than what I got) and shock pumps can bring you hundreds of PSI for a few dozen bucks.
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Re: 6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bo

Unread postAuthor: Zeus » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:18 am

Hurricane Air Arms wrote:I can't help but disagree having first hand evidence and experience with them.


I'm not doubting your tubing, but readily available carbon fibre varies by a massive amount. Again, can you point me towards a website or phone number of the manufacturer if you can't find info on your tubing?

I ran steel wool through mine with a pull-through a few times. I have never had a carbon fibre barrel from CFA (Carbon Fibre Aus, Warragul) fail.


Can you define the finish of the raw tube? If it's a suitable product for my uses I will look into some. Steel wool is a good choice for finishing such material too

Perhaps that's the difference here. Mine seem to be manyfactured tohigher standards, whereas whatever wyz may have used or seen, probably fell below building standards.


As Wyz stated, you're using quite low pressures and light projectiles, if the first few inches from the breech are covered, I've certain it'll be very reliable and perfect for your uses. A 28x hybrid, perhaps not.

Do remember that carbon fibre arrows once cracked, can explode on firing. If possible protect the barrel from undue side loading, prevent excessively stressing it at the breach. Also a good opportunity to add an intergral suppressor :wink:
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Re: 6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bo

Unread postAuthor: Hurricane Air Arms » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:43 am

wyz2285 wrote:Won't argue with you, since you said you haven't went beyond 120 PSI. Myself haven't build anything bellow a couple hundred PSI for a while (and of course I have built semi and full auto airguns, just FYI).
The tubes I used are for model airplane building and the mechanical properties are very good if used correctly.
I simply don't want to see anybody get hurt since carbon fiber tubes are easy to get on eBay (I can't see them to be better quality than what I got) and shock pumps can bring you hundreds of PSI for a few dozen bucks.


That's fair enough :)

I would not recommend carbon fibre above 150 psi so that's obviously the difference here. I'm talking more amateur-intermediate barrels for new comers. Carbon fibre is a good starting point and safety is always no. 1 on any gun I build. (Mostly BBMG's in the sub 130psi region.

Cheers!
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Re: 6mm Tubes (Aus) + Perfect Sealing Brass for breaches, bo

Unread postAuthor: Hurricane Air Arms » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:48 am

Zeus wrote:
Hurricane Air Arms wrote:I can't help but disagree having first hand evidence and experience with them.


I'm not doubting your tubing, but readily available carbon fibre varies by a massive amount. Again, can you point me towards a website or phone number of the manufacturer if you can't find info on your tubing?

I ran steel wool through mine with a pull-through a few times. I have never had a carbon fibre barrel from CFA (Carbon Fibre Aus, Warragul) fail.


Can you define the finish of the raw tube? If it's a suitable product for my uses I will look into some. Steel wool is a good choice for finishing such material too

Perhaps that's the difference here. Mine seem to be manyfactured tohigher standards, whereas whatever wyz may have used or seen, probably fell below building standards.


As Wyz stated, you're using quite low pressures and light projectiles, if the first few inches from the breech are covered, I've certain it'll be very reliable and perfect for your uses. A 28x hybrid, perhaps not.

Do remember that carbon fibre arrows once cracked, can explode on firing. If possible protect the barrel from undue side loading, prevent excessively stressing it at the breach. Also a good opportunity to add an intergral suppressor :wink:


My fathers factory is packed with machine goodies like penetrene, steel wool, felt, etc. (Speaking of suppressors wink wink nudge nudge... felt is an excellent dampener of sound).

Carbon Fibre Australia sells the necessary tubes (all with OD's of 2mm making them quite safe). Maybe it's my individual barrel or the pressures. But they have been fantastic thus far and are well sealed and secured (Workmanship pride taught by my father).

And oops yes, the inner finish is very smooth and shines. BB's may need a tiny tiny detent after applying steel wool however. Happy hunting fellow aussie.
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