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Philosophy. Just read and tell Me what yas think.

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Philosophy. Just read and tell Me what yas think.

Unread postAuthor: TwitchTheAussie » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:13 am

Well I like to sift through things and gain wisdom hence why I like philosophy so much. Heres a theory. Tell me what yas think. Its a bit long.

Well. I got a new philosophy on life. A pearl of wisdom if you will for all truths are grains of sand hidden amid mysteries and myths.

The meaning of life in my eyes:

We all journey through life looking for an end without realising that the journey is the end. For on our journey, we learn. We expand. We make choices. Its these choices that can give us the wisdom of experience. In fact this is my meaning.

We look for the wisdom at the end of the journey without realising that the wisdom we gain on our journey is in fact our end. We can choose to stick to what we know and say that the end which this provides us will be our meaning of life, but then wed be delusional.

Its the pearls of wisdom which we gain through our journeys that give us the ultimate wisdom to see that we arent in this life for the end. We're in it for the journey.

And like all journeys, ours must end. For we all end in the same place. I found yet another pearl of wisdom in my search for enlightenment. A great man once said "Death is not an evil but a nessecary part of life. For There must be opposites to keep this world going. Light and Dark. Right and Wrong. Life and Death". These are all just opposites which we use everyday. They keep us searching for the wisdom to understand.

Wisdom has many forms. Its up to us what we gain and what we dont.

I leave you all to contemplate.
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Unread postAuthor: Killjoy » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:31 am

Hmmm...thats pretty thought provoking, I like it.

Another thought...
Does right or wrong actually exist. The two are based on our perception and/or societies perception as a whole. My/your wrong can be someone elses right, and visa versa.

I kill a man for raping a friend, to me (and possibly my friend) it is justified and right, but society, the man, and the man's family may think it was wrong.
A suicide bomber gives his life and takes many lives for his "cause", doing what he thinks is right. Now from another's stand point what he did is a horrible and wrong act, which can not be justified.

In both of these cases the perceptions of right and wrong are based on the individuals beliefs and feelings, which had been formed fully or partially by society and life experiences. They are beliefs and opinions, and have no indisputably proof to support them and therefore are not an absolute truth.
In reality, right or wrong do not actually exist, they are just personal/societal opinions of something, and this something can either be right or wrong based upon an individuals stand point, and are not "naturally" wrong or right in their nature.

Sorry didn't mean to hijack...
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:06 am

So what was the point of that Twitch? :)

We all journey through life looking for an end without realising that the journey is the end.

I don't believe that, more the journey is your life leading up to the end. Which on average is about 70years.

I live my life day by day, not looking for an end, but more a means to get to the end.

Say I want to live in Europe when i'm older, that's my end, spend my life in Europe. The journey is getting to the end, not the end itself.

I'm just sick of all the teachers at school at the start of a new year handing out 'goal' forms, and we write down our goals.

Seriously what's the point, it's not going to make it any easier for us to achieve those goals, chances are those goals will change eventually depending on yourself, what you decide to do and how you do it, which will change everything.


Anyone seen Donnie Darko? :D
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Unread postAuthor: rna_duelers » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:12 am

crap yes I have,I've seen it 28 times.I'm in love with it.


I plan to live how I do to the end,the end is not a means to live by but to avoid being pinned down by your ends mean.Understand?
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:17 am

Killjoy wrote:Does right or wrong actually exist. The two are based on our perception and/or societies perception as a whole. My/your wrong can be someone elses right, and visa versa.


We had argued this point ad nauseum in the epic Does Evil Exist thread on Spudtech, happy days :)
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Unread postAuthor: rna_duelers » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:23 am

Only perceptions of life exist,there is no right or wrong only different views and perceptions.A different state of mind can mean a different view of life but also a different view of right and wrong,but then what does that life mean to some one elses perception for such a reason?
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Unread postAuthor: singularity » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:39 am

TwitchTheAussie - that sounds a lot like <a href="http://ithaca.rice.edu/kz/Misc/Ithaka.html">this poem</a>, we read it in class a few months ago and had to write some huge essay on it. but if you look past the written words it talks about how lifes a journey and the importance of a destination, i think you might like it.

edit: HOLY CRAP i just recommended a poem to someone, i need to get out of Honors English as fast as i can
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:07 am

Who holds the measuring stick? Man or life? There's to many what ifs in philosophy.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:21 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:We had argued this point ad nauseum in the epic Does Evil Exist thread on Spudtech, happy days :)

Does evil exist? Yes, undoubtedly, but it is not the absence of God/good.
You can have no good without evil. Take an empty box - there is no good in it, but there is certainly no evil. Evil is a deliberate and conscious attempt to do harm. Also, as you pointed out there, Einstein's "God" was really just a belief that things don't need to be complicated - just Ockham's razor really.

I've heard all the "watch" type arguments for God, and they don't cut it with me. Why should a watch that just exists be any less logical than an all powerful being that just exists?

I'm of the morbid view that we have no higher purpose, we're just on this planet for the sole purpose of passing on our DNA, and ironically, religion often destroys that. I know it's not much to look forward to, but all the time in between is yours, do with it what you will.

I leave with a note on the theory that:
- if there is a god and you worship him, you have infinite gain in the afterlife.
-but if you worship a non existent god, your losses are finite.
- If there is no god and you don't worship him, you are level pegging.
- If you fail to worship an existent god, your losses are infinite.

Therefore, if you sum that all up, you are more likely to win out if you worship god... but, my grandmother said a great thing about that, probably one of the better arguments: "If there is a god, and he won't accept me into the afterlife because I wasn't prepared to believe in him on solely blind faith, then it's not a god I would want to worship."
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:21 pm

To add a note onto Rag's post, lets not get into one of those theism vs. atheism arguments. If it's thought provoking, discuss it, but don't get mad if someone doesn't believe what you do.


I agree with with you, Twitch, to an extent, but not entirely. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

Here's some other stuff:

I'm of the morbid view that we have no higher purpose, we're just on this planet for the sole purpose of passing on our DNA,


That's a very interesting thing to think about. If this is true, wouldn't it be easier for life to just not exist? Why do we bother? Why keep fighting, Mr. Anderson?
Is life a part of physics that just happens when certain conditions are met, just as stars are born? Or, are we just something the universe has developed as a means to try and understand itself?

***

Also, on a completely different note...
It appears the dimensions we live in (however many you think there are...) contain matter on a series of "levels", describing the scale of things (i.e., the quantum level, solar level, galactic level, etc).
So far we can observe levels that have a noticeable effect on us, such as neutrinos, quarks, molecules... all the way to other galaxies many light-years away.


Where do the "levels" end? Do they really end with what we can see?

Stuff on the quantum level appears to behave randomly because we can't observe everything that effects particles on that level, so things appear to move "for no reason" an such.

And on the other end of the scale...
Perhaps the "Big bang" was the the result of some one else's tevatron smashing things together on a level we can't observe. So, yes, I guess there could be a "god". Many of them, more likely. But whether "they" realize there is life down here is another story altogether.

***
Now for something more complicated.

We are traveling through time (supposedly). This is easy to observe because you and things around you are moving.
Once you think about it, time isn't much different from any other dimensions.

Now, if you throw a baseball, you can take the kinetic energy from that baseball and do other things with it, because it has energy to spare when it's moving though the non-time dimensions.

But, can you take kinetic energy from its movement though time?
What would happen to it if you did? Would it slow down? or drop out of our time-frame entirely? Is there "stuff" behind the baseball in the time dimension that's "pushing" it forward, keeping it moving through time at a constant rate?
Is this the "free energy" that everyone talks so much about?
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Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:33 pm

We had argued this point ad nauseum in the epic Does Evil Exist thread on Spudtech, happy days


well its all a matter of perspective, one man's evil can be another mans good (or atleast not bad) for example we watched this video in ICT today about interent grooming and they had an interview with a piedaphile who was an'ex-groomer' and he said "at the time i didn't think it was wrong" and i think you guys will agree (unless you are all groomers who just want to get in my pants :shock: but since no-one has approached me yet on spudfiles i will assume you are not)

another example is islamist extremism, suicide bombers think they are doing what God wants (which by definition is good) but 'westerners' (generalization) think that it is wrong.

and the list goes on...
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Unread postAuthor: LikimysCrotchus5 » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:13 pm

_Fnord wrote:But, can you take kinetic energy from its movement though time?
What would happen to it if you did? Would it slow down? or drop out of our time-frame entirely? Is there "stuff" behind the baseball in the time dimension that's "pushing" it forward, keeping it moving through time at a constant rate?
Is this the "free energy" that everyone talks so much about?


I think that some of that deals with neutons law, but not entirely.

I do have my own philospohy, which i love the study of.

I agree with Killjoy alot, his philosophy is very similar to mine.

I also do like these discussions.

But anyway..... Perception (as mentioned) is the key to good and bad. But the thing is that, if we want to be succesful, we need to have a similar perception of good just as our society does so that we can have offspring hand live our life as we intend to. So perception can go both ways (lol), but if you want to be somewhere in life (what i consider) then you want to have a similar perception of good just as society intends.

We are given life to do what we want with it. We have a point in existence and part of it is to just live it, and to wonder. These discussions only make us wiser, this is part of journey to. Then we pass this down and hope our offspring will consider it. Knowledge is passed down, which is how education began. We just try to hope that the younger generation can use this to benefit society. History repeats itself so what may happen now may happen again, just as this type of discussion is happening here compared to the one in spudtech.

Ragnarok wrote:I'm of the morbid view that we have no higher purpose, we're just on this planet for the sole purpose of passing on our DNA


Then wouldnt we have no free will? And just be primates like monkeys? Just as we evolved from them? (plz dont start with the evolution argument) And became a different being although we still hold a relationship to them. Also there would be no point in existence. But i do respect your beliefs, just as we are to in the study of philosophy.

But heres another idea :idea:

You think that people are naturally good or evil? (english question i had)
I think that people are based on the way they are raised. People will have similar attributes just as thier biological parents, and the parents that raised them (if they arent one in the same).

But if that child grows up to be evil, is it his/her fault?

I think so, because we have will to do what we want. But then other might say his parents made him evil. Since we are intelligible mammals, we can justify the difference of doing what is good for ourself, or what isnt (in my theory). But if you want to go to jail, and think crime is good, then that is your choice and your belief of what is good.

But for religion, i think that it just depends on faith. You just gotta believe, (if you want to). There is no way of knowing for sure, and we live only once (as far as i know and believe) so its a hit or miss. But having morals according to society, then you will be successful according to society.

I can elaborate much more, but i dont want your eyes to fall out from reading.

so do you understand my perception?
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Last edited by LikimysCrotchus5 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: Brian the brain » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:22 pm

Good and evil are ,again, relative
If you believe in God, you also believe in his opposite..


If you are evil and do not repent, according to Cristian belief, you go to hell.There you are at the mercy of the devil, who in fact has none..

The devil, or Satan of whatever you call him is therefore doing GODS WORK!!

If you " behave" you get to go to heaven, if not, the devil punishes you.
This scary thought is supposed to keep you from going off the straight and narrow..

.come on..think about it..
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Unread postAuthor: LikimysCrotchus5 » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:28 pm

You are correct BTB and since i grew up Catholic, i succombed to its beleif, and i choose to believe it, although i dont have to.

But that is something to definatly elaborate on.

And remember, there is never no right answer in philosophy.
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Unread postAuthor: Brian the brain » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:40 pm

Apart from how much I don;t take the bible litterally, I am still not convinced there is no God.
The entire universe is too convinient to be a coincidence.
Meaning, there are so many factors that could easily make life impossible and still we are here.

For instance

If oxygen levels where just a few % lower, or higher, we would all not be here...

If the earth was a little closer, or farther away from the sun, the same would be true

The list of " coincidences " wich are nessecary to sustane life are endless
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