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Concealed Carry on Campus

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READ POST BEFORE VOTING! Do you favor allow licensed, responsible college students 21 and over to carry a weapon on campus?

Yes - I think it's a good idea.
42
75%
No - I think it's a bad idea.
14
25%
 
Total votes : 56
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Unread postAuthor: Solar » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:45 am

In most states it is legal to OPEN CARRY, that is, not-concealed carrying. The only need to conceal a weapon is if you don't want people to know you have it. That is why you need a permit to CONCEAL. It is a misconception that you need a permit to open carry a weapon. Only in 21 and over areas(i.e. Bars) and within 1000ft of school zones(w/o concealed carry permit)(Federal law) is it not legal. At the University of Washington recently, students were carrying empty holsters as a protest that the school was banning even concealed permit holders from exercising their right to arm themselves. In one of the recent school attacks the perpetrator was stopped when a teacher ran out to his car trunk and armed himself with his pistol. Safe gun handling should be a required course in school. Hell, someone can kill more pedestrians with a car than a pistol and teenagers regularly receive their permits before they are ready.
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Unread postAuthor: Pete Zaria » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:46 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:
Every permit holder knows if we break this rule, we'll go to jail.


Very valid point, if you've gone through the effort of getting your permit you'll be very cautious about the threat of having it removed if you use it irresponsibly.


I can't speak for all permit holders obviously but I personally would never clear leather (or even let anyone know that I was armed) until I knew my life was in immediate danger. To me, a carried gun is a last resort and absolutely nothing else - it will never be used for intimidation, it will never be used to "stop a fight", it's there as a last-ditch life preserver only. I think the majority of people that have carried for any length of time feel this way, too.

Jeff Cooper, a famous and extraordinary firearms guru, had 4 Rules of Firearms:

1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)
3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.
4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.


He left off #5: Always Carry, Never Tell :)

Peace,
Pete Zaria.
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Unread postAuthor: Davidvaini » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:23 am

just cause there are background checks it doesnt mean that a person cant change over time and doesnt mean their mood cant change when they are drunk either....

You could have a really responsible person that has never broken any law that gets a few drinks in their system and does stupid crap... this could happen anywhere but what I'm saying is there is an increase of a chance to consume alcohol in college. It doesnt matter how responsible that person has been or currently is... with a few drinks anyone can do stupid crap and there are more than a few drinks available around colleges...


Side note: I do approve guns as an acting deterrent to prevent crime.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:26 am

You can't change your Police record though, alot of people I know, have been arrested for drinking and they're only 16. So they would have no chance of getting a concealed weapon license.
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Unread postAuthor: Pete Zaria » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:27 am

Davidvaini wrote:just cause there are background checks it doesnt mean that a person cant change over time and doesnt mean their mood cant change when they are drunk either....

You could have a really responsible person that has never broken any law that gets a few drinks in their system and does stupid crap... this could happen anywhere but what I'm saying is there is an increase of a chance to consume alcohol in college. It doesnt matter how responsible that person has been or currently is... with a few drinks anyone can do stupid crap and there are more than a few drinks available around colleges...


So does that mean you're against it?

Do you think that the potential risk of a permit-holding student doing something stupid spur-of-the-moment while intoxicated, outweighs the potential benefit of students being able to stop a massacre?

Just trying to figure out your position here....

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Unread postAuthor: Davidvaini » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:32 am

I'm not saying im against it, I'm pointing out the fact that even a person with a clean record can still get a few drinks in their system and totally change.. I know you cant change your record... and im not talking about those who have records...

im talking about those who dont have records that are perfectly responsible untill they get a few drinks in their system... I know a bunch of people that I go out shooting with, they obviously dont have a record and already own firearms, but I also know that if one of them got drunk and had the gun close they would do something cause they are totally different people when they are drunk.

Point im trying to get at is...

Even if they don't have a record, it doesn't stop a person from making stupid decisions, especially with alcohol, especially when the alcohol is close to them, especially in large supply.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:46 am

Davidvaini wrote:Even if they don't have a record, it doesn't stop a person from making stupid decisions, especially with alcohol, especially when the alcohol is close to them, especially in large supply.


You have point, however we still give people driving licenses, even though you can't guarantee they won't use them while under the influence. A car is potentially much more lethal than a gun depending on the situation. With this reasoning, ban guns and car keys of campus.
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Unread postAuthor: LikimysCrotchus5 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:54 am

Well i believe that this is an interesting controversial topic, but im nt sure on my say on this.

Not many people will necesarily go through the trouble of possessing a real firearm, but some will. Some people will use it for bad, while others will use it for defense and justice.

I think that we need to have somekind on research done with this, meaning that it would be legal, and then we evaluate the raise/decrease in killings etc.

I think that thiss will cause more media sensationalism, which in turn will affect the people alot because many people fall helpless to the hypnotic ways of telling a mass of people what their beliefs on a topic is.

This i also think will increase the number of killings, only because we all know there are bad people out there, which will always exist, and since no law is essentially fullproof, there maybe an increase in availibility of guns. People might be able to get their hands on them, and use it to kill, while we pull out our concealed weapons and shoot the guy who is trying to kill us.

this may begin to wipe out the psycho's in society by natural selection, but death is evident when you use a gun against another human being.

I can go on but i dont want to. Guns can help, and can harm, but if we can protect ourselves, there will be less killed but more killings, in my perspective.

I would possibly carry a weapon, but only in certain areas.

So there is my schpiel (sp?)
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Unread postAuthor: Davidvaini » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:56 am

I live in Wisconsin where I know about drunk driving and its effects... trust me on that one... we have more drunk drivers than any other state.. I'm not saying im against the idea of guns on campus... I'm just trying to bring awareness about the following statistics and how concealing a gun on campus might not out weight all the accidental shootings provided by emotions and alcohol.



84% of accidental shootings are people with no records.
55% of accidental shootings are under the influence of alcohol.
78% of people under the influence of alcohol become violent 92% of which are normally calm, relaxed people.

Now if you've been anywhere near colleges, you know alcohol is around and it does get drank. Im gonna look up some more stats on CDC and other sites.

These statistics are about every day situations. Now add on top of that the increased chance of alcohol consumption and it may or may not out weight the potential benefit of stopping the shootings.
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Unread postAuthor: Solar » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:22 am

People can drink in their own homes. Are gun related accidents on the rise in dry counties? People with a domestic violence conviction are not allowed to conceal. Does the law really work though?

In the USA we live in an armed society. The question is if we should disarm our students and turn them into soft targets for any psychopathic killer willing to break the law and start a massacre if it be with an AK-47 or a chain saw, no difference, the students should be able to defend themselves. The only other option should be to have armed security on campus which I know is not the case in most Universities.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:25 am

Solar wrote:The only other option should be to have armed security on campus which I know is not the case in most Universities.


This was the case in the latest killing, by the time security arrived it was already over.
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Unread postAuthor: BigGrib » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:33 am

I myself am all for concealed carry anywhere, with the exception of any place that you are required to be 21 (ie bars) and any federal building. College Campuses should not be included in this list of prohibited places. I personally have my concealed pistol license issued by the state of WA, and usually carry with me 90% of the time. I have a lock box mounted underneath the dash of my truck that I store it in when I need to.

As far as the government is concerned I believe in Ron Paul, and am actually a precinct leader in the state of WA for the Ron Paul campaign. Unfortunately America is just not ready for the forward thinking and innovation that he represents. This is a shame because I am all for giving the power of deciding back to the states.

Anyway I voted YES on this poll.
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:37 am

Here is an interesting twist, would you fire upon someone you suspected as being a law enforcement officer?
(there is method to my madness)
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:42 am

Novacastrian wrote:Here is an interesting twist, would you fire upon someone you suspected as being a law enforcement officer?


If they were pointing a gun at my loved ones or myself I wouldn't think twice about emptying my magazine, even if it was Saint Mother Teresa riding Bambi.

ok, bad choice of words and BAD mental image!

:shock: :D
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:49 am

As far as the government is concerned I believe in Ron Paul, and am actually a precinct leader in the state of WA for the Ron Paul campaign. Unfortunately America is just not ready for the forward thinking and innovation that he represents. This is a shame because I am all for giving the power of deciding back to the states.




I'm going for McCain, two reasons:

1) I bet someone at school $10 he would beat Obama.

2) <A HREF="http://www.mccain.com/index.htm">Ah McCain, you've done it again</a> Gotta love those ads :)

Novacastrian wrote:Here is an interesting twist, would you fire upon someone you suspected as being a law enforcement officer?
(there is method to my madness)


Sure why not, are you saying a cop is shooting a place up?
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Last edited by MrCrowley on Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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