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every weekend there are parties with large amounts... Have you ever been to a college party? Its not a misconception that there are large amounts of alcohol. Maybe its just my home town or maybe its the town 30 minutes from me or maybe its all of the towns that I have lived in... but every weekend there are multiple parties with a lot of alcohol... its what we use to unwind.
btw the city I live in is a college town and maybe I'm bias in that factor but I know in my town its not a misconception.
I have been to college and it was a big party, maybe not every night, but at least once a week not including friday and saturday night. Then again I went to Wyoming Tech so Ragnarok do the math on what my chances of getting shot while going to a redneck tech school where 25% of the students are card carrying NRA members and 50% of the students go out drinking that often. Figure about 700 students during any given semester, while also taking into account that the University of Wyoming is located in this town as well.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkMkGOpAF4s">DONT TAZE ME BRO.. DONT TAZE ME... AHHHH</a>
I'm surprised and quite satisfied with the response this thread generated - I'm glad to see people are passionate about the topic.
I see a few of you are getting hung up on this issue of college parties and alcohol.
I want to repeat my question:
Do you really think the potential risk of a licensed permit-holding student "flipping out" and doing something stupid while drunk, outweighs the potential benefits of a student being able to stop a massacre?
I don't think it's very likely that an otherwise responsible person would just flip out while drunk.
I have a permit, and carry, and drink occasionally - I've never even once thought about drawing a weapon out of anger. I may be an unusual example, but I think you underestimate the maturity level of the average permit holder.
pete you may not use it when you are drunk... but can you say others around you that are drunk wouldnt take it from you or use one if they were permit holders as well....
Also I wanna bring up another point... its a scenario where 100's of students are together in an auditorium for a meeting or something and all of a sudden a crazy shooter comes in and shoots, people would pull out their guns and shoot him most likely, but what if you didnt see that first shooter and you see someone else shooting in this crowded area... multiple people shooting at multiple people... you wouldnt know the first gunman from the 2nd 3rd etc...
Imagine you see a guy pull out a gun in a crowded auditorium, would you shoot at him if you too had a gun? so you decide to shoot at him but only to find out later he wasnt the shooter he was doing the very thing you were doing.. trying to shoot the bad guy... you may laugh at this scenario and say its unlikely but when adrenaline is pumping and everyone is screaming would you be able to spot the 1st gunman from the 2nd and so on?
I do like guns as a safety deterrent and I do respect that people want and should have the right to defend themselves but at which point does it not become worth it due to the potential accidental factors as well as the low percentage of actual violence to begin with?
Im not sure weather or not fighting fire with fire is a good idea when the current situation is really not as bad/often as everyone assumes it to be because of the escalation due to the media.
Last edited by Davidvaini on Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I wouldn't bet on that, I consider myself to be an otherwise responsible person, but I've done things while drunk that I'd never even think of doing when I was sober, and in some cases have absolutely no recollection.
Dont feel bad... 78% of people become violent while intoxicated when otherwise they were calm responsible people.
I'm willing to be however the other 22% become very happy... however the CDC doesnt have any stats on that lol
I see exactly where you are coming from David, you are right, but I don't think a permit holder would bring a gun to a party, if it was at a dorm, I would keep mine in a safe and tell no one the PIN number.
Not that i'm afrad of someone shooting someone else, more because I wouldn't want someone messing about with my gun, they could ruin it you know
Like "that girl"
Really. It seems that partying got mixed into this topic when it seems to me that most of these school shootings take place DURING SCHOOL HOURS (which means, no one is partying). This eliminates the alcohol factor of the original question altogether. Besides, if a guy at a party has a gun and flips out while drunk, would it even actually be considered a school shooting? Probably not. It would have taken place at a school (maybe) but the media would display it as a fight instead of a massacre.
And, as far as shooting the "wrong shooter" it could very well be possible during a high stress situation due to lack of training. You see a guy with a gun. You shoot the guy with the gun. Right?
*cradles aching head and shakes fists at the heavens* why Lord, why??!!
@Davidvaini: That is a very important point. In a panicked situation, the wrong person with a gun could get shot. And in a shot across a crowded auditorium, especially in a rush, then that puts other people in danger.
Or security could burst in, and they would have no idea which of 3 or 4 people with guns is the actual gunman. That could result in extra deaths or injuries.
@ShowNoMercy: People get very drunk at my university. It's not immediately obvious to most people, but if like me, you're a crew member who gets to go around the "backstage" areas, including the emergency first aid section, you get an idea of how violent some people get.
Over a dozen people on some nights need some form of first aid, and only a couple of days ago there was someone with a broken arm and cuts to the face that will probably scar.
If that doesn't prove convincing, the regular pools of vomit that dot the nightclub floor show that excess is very common.
Put guns into that mix, and you'll probably get some real trouble.
The huge brain alteration is part of the reason I don't drink alcohol. Along with something of a dislike for the taste, I don't want to consume something I don't really like to warp my mind.
Besides, believe it or not, drawing actually has the same desirable effect of suppressing the left-side of the brain.
But pencil and paper doesn't cost half as much, doesn't impair my mental ability, and I have yet to have a hangover from drawing too much, nor am I ever likely to hear this sentence:
"Sorry, sir, I'm going to have to ask you to step out of the vehicle, I suspect you're over the Drink/Drawing limit."
Not to mention the results look better...
But most people don't know that, nor do they know how to draw. Pity, it's not actually that hard.
@BigGrib: I can't actually work that one out, because I'd need data for very specific circumstances. However, it's still going to be so low that wasting your time worrying about it is pointless.
The media has blown such events out of proportion. You are many times more likely to be murdered by a trusted friend or relation than you are to be fall foul of such an incident.
@JSR: How would one both cradle one's head (in your hands) and shake said hands at the heavens at the same time?
Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
It was a sequence of actions, not a combo like the *headdeskfacepalm*
Serious this posting is so lame!! You dont carry a gun where ever you. In my country is not allowed to carry a gun. I dont c the point of bringing one to parties or to schools. It makes me think about all the shootings that happend. If you would bring it to school other ppl will as well; thus raising the chance of a big shooting. Serious I sometimes dont get americans with all their guns etc. I like making bb guns and everything but not to kill or to hurt ppl!!!!
I see guns as part of my life, if you took them away I would be missing something. Its a hobby and I have grown to accept that most people disagree with guns and say that we should get rid of them all. I understand the points made above and I think what I was trying to say was more along the lines of that there would be no drinking, although I am guilty of such offense, during school hours. I was not implying that you should bring your gun to every party you go to. I thought one would assume so.
Jesus saves, no need to pray
The gates of pearl have turned to gold
It seems you've lost your way
Most people do not disagree with guns. In certain circles that may be accurate, but the in world over, gun use is accepted as a part of daily life, not just as a sport or hobby. It's true that I don't use my pistol to shoot dinner, but when I walk my property at night or with my children, I am always armed in case the mountain lions or the 900 pound bear on our property decides to charge us as happened to our neighbors. I'm teaching my daughters proper gun handling and how to defend themselves from anti gun nuts that tend to attack what they fear out of ignorance. I've spent a lot of time in"disarmed" population centers and shake my head at the lack of responsibility the people take for the safety of their fellow man. I wonder when the first anti knife law will be passed in a "free" society. I'm sure that will reduce crime...
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