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Concealed Carry on Campus

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READ POST BEFORE VOTING! Do you favor allow licensed, responsible college students 21 and over to carry a weapon on campus?

Yes - I think it's a good idea.
42
75%
No - I think it's a bad idea.
14
25%
 
Total votes : 56
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Concealed Carry on Campus

Unread postAuthor: Pete Zaria » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:51 pm

PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING!

In the wake of the last few college campus shootings, an organization called ConcealedCampus has formed to attempt to sell the idea of allowing college students, aged 21 and older, that have passed the federal background check and required safety course, to be able to carry a concealed handgun on campus.

The theory is basically this:

At the recent NIU shooting, campus security responded in a matter of 2 or 3 minutes. By this time, several were already dead. When seconds matter, the police are there in minutes. Unless there is an armed guard in virtually every hallway, you cannot protect an entire campus.

Anyone aged 21 or older can already get a concealed weapons permit in most states. There's a required detailed background check (no permits are awarded to convicted felons or anyone with a history of mental problems), a required 4 hour safety course, and in some states an accuracy test. Many students already have concealed weapons permits and carry everywhere EXCEPT campus (and other places where we legally can't carry, such as bars and government buildings).
There's no reason to suggest that these reasonable people would be responsible with their guns off-campus and would suddenly become violent on-campus. Responsible people (that pass the checks, etc...) don't "just snap".
And remember, we're not talking about allowing the general public to carry on campus, only those with permits that have passed the requirements.

I'm wondering what most of your opinions are on this. I'm, obviously, very strongly for it. History has shown that putting guns into the hands of responsible citizens is not only a good idea - it's the ONLY way to counter guns in the hands of sociopaths.

Some of you may argue that putting weapons on campus is a bad idea - I'd just like to point out, the type of kids that would commit a school shooting are going to carry weapons rather it's legal or not.
I firmly believe legalizing licensed concealed carry on campus would lower, not raise the violent crime rate.

Check out the link in my signature for more info.

Let me know what you think :)

Peace,
Pete Zaria.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:05 am

A would be mass killer would think twice about starting a shootout if he knew there were students who could fight back, however these are usually highly unstable people who in most cases are prepared/willing to die so the threat of death isn't going to put them off. What concealed weapons would do is cut out the delay from the authorities response time and certainly limit the damage that can be done.

Still, that might see a shift to other means of mass killings if people insist on taking the largest possible number of people with them when ending their misery, let's not forget that the worst school killing on US soil didn't involve firearms.
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Unread postAuthor: goathunter » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:05 am

Well as everyone can already guess I'm in favor of this.I'd very much prefer to keep my gun(s) with me on campus.

Proper firearms handling is key to safety.Running in fear of the unknown is never a good defense.Those who have the knowledge and accept the responsibility of firearms ownership should be allowed to have their guns with them wherever they go.

Edit:
et's not forget that the worst school killing on US soil didn't involve firearms.


You mean to say there have always been crazy people(even in '27)?Say it isn't so! I thought people killed each other because of Doom and violent movies.At least that's what the news told me :roll:
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:14 am

If it mattered to me, I'd say yes. Maybe they could have a special license required to have a gun on campus, on top of the concealed weapons license.

Just like an accuracy test if the state already doesn't have one.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:20 am

goathunter wrote:You mean to say there have always been crazy people(even in '27)?Say it isn't so! I thought people killed each other because of Doom and violent movies.At least that's what the news told me :roll:


hehe too bad so many miss the point. The only reason we pay more attention these days is that that fell whore, media sensationalism. It must be admitted though that semi-automatic firearms have made these killers more efficient, you can't imagine something like Virginia Tech happening if the had to pour powder and muzzle load :roll:
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Unread postAuthor: PinHead » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:21 am

Myself, I am a big supporter of concealed carry in general, not just on college campuses. The only problem I can see is those living in dorm rooms who would have to store their weapons and ammunition on site, and have to worry about a roommate getting into their stuff. A safe is the obvious solution, and would have to be definitely required for anyone storing a weapon on campus. Plus you have the freak out factor when people find out that the guy down the hall has a gun in his dorm; alot of people just won't understand.

Nevertheless, you can't argue against the statistics on this issue. Not only does having a concealed weapon give people a chance to respond instantly to a threat, but it offers a good deterrence to it. Think about it... is a thief/psychopath very likely to consider breaking into, say, a rancher's house in Texas? Probably not, because he knows there's a good chance that the guy living there has a shotgun within reach at all times. He probably wouldn't think the same way of breaking into some liberal suburbanite's home, though.

Here's a non-partisan study, for example.
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pdcrm/pdcrm20.htm
And let's not forget what happened to countries like the U.K. and Australia when they started their wide-range ban of firearms; statistics don't lie there, either.
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Unread postAuthor: Davidvaini » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:24 am

you know it would be awesome to have thousands of college students that get drunk every weekend to have weapons on campus, especially when a lot of them are on so much pressure to do well in school that they are already close to suicide..... w00t w00t
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:30 am

Davidvaini wrote:you know it would be awesome to have thousands of college students that get drunk every weekend to have weapons on campus, especially when a lot of them are on so much pressure to do well in school that they are already close to suicide..... w00t w00t


This is why there are background checks, no one said everyone is responsible enough to be awarded a permit.
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Unread postAuthor: A a r o n » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:33 am

Let me know what you think


And you're voting for Obama?


:laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:
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Unread postAuthor: Pete Zaria » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:33 am

Davidvaini wrote:you know it would be awesome to have thousands of college students that get drunk every weekend to have weapons on campus, especially when a lot of them are on so much pressure to do well in school that they are already close to suicide..... w00t w00t


There are laws in place in most states regarding carrying weapons in bars and etc.

My opinion is that the type of student that's willing to go through the paperwork and time and effort to get a permit (background check, 60 day waiting period, psych test, range test, etc...) is generally the responsible type of person and won't be stirring up trouble.

Additionally, the type of person that's going to "flip out" and do something crazy while they're drunk doesn't really care if they have a legal permit to carry or not.

Finally, this is a small risk to take considering the current system - how many school shootings have there been in the past year? The odds of a student being able to stop a massacre are better than the odds of a drunken permit holder going on a rampage - plus, would someone like that really care if they have a permit or not??

Remember the New Life Church shooting where a woman with a concealed weapons permit and a revolver was able to stop a madman before he murdered many more. She's the "poster child" for this campaign.

Consider that less than 5% of shootings are committed by permit holders. The kind of people that are willing to go through the effort and training to get a CWP aren't likely to do something that stupid.

A a r o n wrote:
Let me know what you think


And you're voting for Obama?


:laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:


Yes, I know he's an anti-gun candidate, but...

I disagree 100% with John McCain and the Republicans. The GOP has taken this country so far south I'm not sure we'll ever be the same.
I don't trust Hillary; she's taken millions of dollars from pharmaceutical and energy companies.
That leaves one candidate, and even if I don't agree with his gun control policy, he's the lesser of the evils by far. So yes, I'm voting for him. I don't think the Senate will allow any strict gun control bills to pass anytime soon anyway.

Peace,
Pete Zaria.
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Last edited by Pete Zaria on Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:34 am

I am with JSR on this issue, having guns on campus grounds could cut down the delay in apprehending (blowing head off) any perpetrator. I do see a problem though.
When you give some people any measure of power (in this case a pistol) they tend to turn into little Hitlers, it gives them a sense of superiority.
I am not saying that everyone that carries heat acts in such a fashion however this must be kept in mind.

What is to stop these said "Hitlers" being a little trigger happy, i.e. they spot someone waving around what looks to be a gun a decide to pop a cap into them, only to realise they have killed or wounded an innocent person waving around what he/she thinks is a gun because they have been smoking crack all day.

Having said that I am for it, i think it would help cut down on the number of lives lost in these massacres.
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Unread postAuthor: Pete Zaria » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:38 am

Novacastrian wrote:What is to stop these said "Hitlers" being a little trigger happy, i.e. they spot someone waving around what looks to be a gun a decide to pop a cap into them, only to realise they have killed or wounded an innocent person waving around what he/she thinks is a gun because they have been smoking crack all day.


Training.

During the CWP class, the tell you EXACTLY when you can and can't use lethal force.

In most states, it's pretty simple; you can only use lethal force when your adversary has shown clear intent AND capability to cause grave harm to you or someone else (some states only allow you to protect yourself, at that).
Basically you can't shoot someone just for brandishing a weapon; they have to be threatening to use it for it to be a "legal shoot".
Every permit holder knows if we break this rule, we'll go to jail.

Read my above post. Weigh the risks and rewards. It seems like a no-brainer to me :)

Peace,
Pete Zaria.
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Unread postAuthor: Killjoy » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:40 am

Personnally I'm for conceal carry on campus.

Sure there could be issues with alcohal and the firearms on the campus as david pointed out, but in general, it seems most people who know firearm safety and are familiar with them are lesslikely to have a firearm/alcohal related accident (just specualation, no statistics that I know of).

Still, these school shootings would probably be much fewer if 1)the media refused to cover the event, only mentioning its occurance and having no discussion of the killer and 2)if multiple students had firearms on them in class, mainly because the shooter(s) would know he would be less likely to kill those he intends because he won't have that "grace" period with no security guards/police.

If conceal carry is legalized on campus, you can bet I'll be carrying.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:42 am

Yes, I know he's an anti-gun candidate, but...


You should read more into that. Anti-gun is not just against firearms, it implies an attitude, one that I woul not be comfortable with governing my country.

Every permit holder knows if we break this rule, we'll go to jail.


Very valid point, if you've gone through the effort of getting your permit you'll be very cautious about the threat of having it removed if you use it irresponsibly.
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Unread postAuthor: A a r o n » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:43 am

I disagree 100% with John McCain and the Republicans. The GOP has taken this country so far south I'm not sure we'll ever be the same.
I don't trust Hillary; she's taken millions of dollars from pharmaceutical and energy companies.
That leaves one candidate, and even if I don't agree with his gun control policy, he's the lesser of the evils by far. So yes, I'm voting for him. I don't think the Senate will allow any strict gun control bills to pass anytime soon anyway.



Don't forget Ron Paul. He's against gun control and the war in Iraq. Just because the media ignores him doesnt mean he isn't in the election

http://www.ontheissues.org/Profile_Ron_Paul.htm
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