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Charton Heston dies at 84

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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:17 pm

Certainly one of the acting greats, that will be missed. As for the gun debate, that... hmm - I think I won't go there.

As for all this talk of "god-given rights", there is an irony that none of the authors of the US constitution were theists, they were either deists (believed in a god that had created the universe, then left it be) or atheists. So, none believed in an interventionist deity.

God is not once mentioned in the US constitution or the bill of rights (go check if you must - Religion is mentioned, but none is supported over any other.)

So I suggest people stop talking about these rights as "God given", because it's technically incorrect to do so, and is just going to cause more friction. Of all the things that get a topic locked, it's usually either gun debates or religion debates - let's not mix both here.

Please note, I'm not supporting either side of any debate here, just trying to avoid the topic spiralling into the deleted area.
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:34 pm

"Take your dam hands off me you filthy ape"
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:46 pm

@ Rag:

I don't think you should really take anything in this thread seriously (other than the stuff about Charton, anyway).

Judgment seems to have a habit of throwing religious and political crap in for the sole purpose of starting *debates*. (It's very effective too :))


I do see this thread getting locked before long though...
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Unread postAuthor: Jared Haehnel » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:10 pm

Ok I'm going to step in here...just to get my toes wet...

I am sad to hear that Charton Heston passed on...he was a good man and fellow member of the NRA....

Ive read all the comments made by everyone and I must say this has been an interesting debate/memoriam...

I am a very strong believer in the second amendment and I feel it also has a strong relation to spud guns concerning there legality. My sincere feelings on this matter is that there are two powers in any given country. A political power and a physical power. Ideally in a free society there should be an even balance of both powers between the people and the government. Basically they enforce each other.

However the trend, at least in the US, is to give more and more political power to the government. If you want and exampled look how many BS laws there are on the books. It restricts our freedoms.

Recently there has been an ever increasing trend to ban guns, knives and other "weapons" in the name of security. This restricts our physical power to protect and enforce the government. With a disarmed society we open our selves up "abuse". It may never happen, or in the case of Germany it may lead to gross crimes against humanity.

I agree with Judge, religion was why this country was founded. Our fore fathers wanted to make sure we had the right to worship in the way we wanted. The bill of rights, the constitution were all inspired documents to ensure that God's people remained free...whether the forefather believe in god or not.
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My current projects....

Currently buying part for...
http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/my-new- ... rt,15.html
Still on the drawing board...
C02 tank hybrid
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:13 pm

Ragnarok wrote:As for all this talk of "god-given rights", there is an irony that none of the authors of the US constitution were theists, they were either deists (believed in a god that had created the universe, then left it be) or atheists. So, none believed in an interventionist deity.

The Founding Fathers were God fearing men, they all knew and believed there was a God. Our Declaration of Independents states:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights…”

Ragnarok wrote:God is not once mentioned in the US constitution or the bill of rights (go check if you must - Religion is mentioned, but none is supported over any other.)

No, God is not mentioned in the constitution, because “congress shall make no act to establish a religion”.

Ragnarok wrote:So I suggest people stop talking about these rights as "God given", because it's technically incorrect to do so…

No, it’s politically incorrect to do so, and since my new years resolution was to “Be as politically incorrect as posible”, I will continue to defend my Faith, my Country, and the men the died and/or spent their life fighting for my Country.

Ragnarok wrote:Of all the things that get a topic locked, it's usually either gun debates or religion debates - let's not mix both here.

You know why the debate starts, people like you feel that they must force the whole of creation to believe that there is no God, and that it’s politically incorrect to say there is a God.
If you hadn’t made your post, I would not of had to defend a thing, and there would not have bean a debate.

Ragnarok wrote:Please note, I'm not supporting either side of any debate here, just trying to avoid the topic spiralling into the deleted area.

Sounds to me like your supporting the “left side”, if you will, of this debate.

MrCrowley’s already said the topic won’t be locked as long as we remain reasonable.


Honestly, do people not listen? I have already said that if you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing. And that it’s disrespectful to talk down a man’s beliefs at his memorial.
If you don’t agree with his beliefs then, please, don’t say anything against them, why not ignore the stuff you don’t like, and instead only make comments on stuff you do.
We can all agree on his fight for racial equality, right?

_fnord, it’s not “crap”, is there nobody with any respect anymore?
I don’t do it to start debates, I do it to defend faith, Country, and Countrymen as I said before.
Once again, it’s you people that start the debate, I just finish ‘em.
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Unread postAuthor: Jared Haehnel » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:20 pm

For an almost 17 year old your pretty good judge...unless of course your joking on your age...really I think you should be applauded...

My I ask what religion are you?
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Currently buying part for...
http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/my-new- ... rt,15.html
Still on the drawing board...
C02 tank hybrid
Screen doors for submarines...
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:23 pm

Anybody remember the quote from the movie The Ten Commandments when the Red Sea parted?

Edit: These quotes are my tibute to Chuck, R.I.P.
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:28 pm

"Crap" is just my opinion. It may be a harsh/disrespectful word to use, but I'm not one to sugar-coat anything. I respect the man that this thread was created for, but not using the thread to fuel other arguments.

You should know by now that you're not going to convince anyone on the internet of anything they don't want to believe.
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Unread postAuthor: potatoflinger » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:33 pm

If you guys have to debate about everything, why don't you do so in the chat area or by PM. It seems like lately the "non-spudgun related" section has turned into the "debate section", and it's really only ruining threads. Some people (myself included) like to be able to read interesting threads without having to sort through all the crap.
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Unread postAuthor: Jared Haehnel » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:40 pm

I don't know why everything has been a debate lately but I find if people keep it civil... and I keep an open mind...that I end up learning some thing on both sides of the argument.

Plus it helps me to get to know the members of the forums better...what there stance is on topics and how they feel about things in general...over all I think they can be every bit as educational as discussing about spuds...just in a different way...
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My current projects....

Currently buying part for...
http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/my-new- ... rt,15.html
Still on the drawing board...
C02 tank hybrid
Screen doors for submarines...
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:42 pm

Jared Haehnel wrote:For an almost 17 year old your pretty good judge...unless of course your joking on your age...really I think you should be applauded...

My I ask what religion are you?

I ain’t kiddin’ about my age; I wish I was 32 though, that way I could get a CCW, an FFL, and a Class-3 weapons permit.
But that’s a completely different subject

As for my religion, I’m a Church of God Christian, and proud of it! :)

_Fnord wrote:"Crap" is just my opinion. It may be a harsh/disrespectful word to use, but I'm not one to sugar-coat anything. I respect the man that this thread was created for, but not using the thread to fuel other arguments.


So, why you doin’ it?

_Fnord wrote:You should know by now that you're not going to convince anyone on the internet of anything they don't want to believe.

I’m not trying to convert anybody, if anybody is, it’s Ragnarok and the rest that started this whole debate.



Potatoflinger, just remember that the debate is started by the first person to say something against the original post.
In this case it was Poland_spud’s slightly disrespectful remark.
In Scott’s threads it was Nova then Poland_spud, both with anti-war/anti-Amrica posts


EDIT:
I agree with Jared Haehnel
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:49 pm

Mods, you should give evey member who posted nothing about Charlton Heston 24 hour's to edit their post to a apology or ban their ass's for a week, this is just ridiculous!!!!

Nobody else remember any good quote's?

Edit: Hell yes I'm complaining about you guys!!!
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Last edited by jrrdw on Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: potatoflinger » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:49 pm

I'm not pointing any fingers here, but even if one person does say something against the original post, everyone that replies to that post is just adding fuel to the fire.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:55 pm

@jrrdw,

Unfortunately, Mods can't ban. But you are right, this is starting to push it...
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:57 pm

MrCrowley wrote:@jrrdw,

Unfortunately, Mods can't ban. But you are right, this is starting to push it...


Run it by PCGUY, you'll have a great influance.
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