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Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Thu May 22, 2008 10:17 am

judgment_arms wrote:“…the right of the people to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed.”

What them schools are doin’ sounds like infringement to me…

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" -Adolf Hitler,1935

Sound familiar…:roll:

The elipses are important in the quote from the US constitution. The sentence has a completely different meaning with the elipses than it does if it is quoted properly. It is incorrect to quote a part of a sentences. I could quote it as "the right of the people to keep and bare arms shall ... be infringed." The correct quotation, and the only one that should ever be used is the entire sentence.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Notice the reference to a Militia and the Security of the State. It says nothing about the security of an individual. The sentence can easily be read as the right of the people to bear arms is gauranteed in as far as they are needed to protect the state.

The quote from A. Hitler is just stupid. Many contries have full gun registration, Canada for example, and they aren't on a path of world domination, restriction of personal freedoms, genocide are any of the other things A. Hitler is rightly condemend for. Besides, I'm sure I can find a couple really nice quotes from Adolph that exactly match things R. Reagan said about the importance of a ginormous military.
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Thu May 22, 2008 10:51 am

It’s two separate thoughts, just the same way as the first amendment grants freedom of speech, press, and religion.

Do you even know what a militia is? It’s like the military ‘cept you bring your own gun (byog).

And it still says the right of the people not the government or the militiamen.

Now MrCrowley said no more gun politics, and I’m about to leave, so this is the end of this argument.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Thu May 22, 2008 11:03 am

Regardless of your stance on whether or not it should be allowed, it isn't, and like it or not, that's the law you have to adhere to or risk punishment.
Ranting about it here isn't going to change the law. If you want to do that, find more effective means to do it.

Besides, can anyone here tell me they honestly think that a 14 year old is mentally mature enough to have a (presumably semi-automatic) handgun unsupervised?

For a thought experiment, say I give you a typical handgun, and tell you to hand it to the next 14 year old you see. Would you you be absolutely confident in doing so?
I wouldn't be.

Some 14 year-olds may well be mature enough. But some 21 year-olds aren't truly mature enough, so why should all 14 year-olds be?
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Unread postAuthor: TurboSuper » Thu May 22, 2008 11:16 am

Ragnarok wrote:Regardless of your stance on whether or not it should be allowed, it isn't, and like it or not, that's the law you have to adhere to or risk punishment.
Ranting about it here isn't going to change the law. If you want to do that, find more effective means to do it.

Besides, can anyone here tell me they honestly think that a 14 year old is mentally mature enough to have a (presumably semi-automatic) handgun unsupervised?

For a thought experiment, say I give you a typical handgun, and tell you to hand it to the next 14 year old you see. Would you you be absolutely confident in doing so?
I wouldn't be.

Some 14 year-olds may well be mature enough. But some 21 year-olds aren't truly mature enough, so why should all 14 year-olds be?


THANK YOU, this is pretty much the point I was trying to get across all along.

As for the "chaos" solution to dealing with a shooter...it's an interesting avenue of inquiry, but I'm wondering what would happen in practice. Would people just stand still and hide naturally, even if there were no protocol? Not to mention human stampedes, as funny as they may sound, can actully kill people. IMO, the best method is to either hide or to GTFO as quickly as possible.
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Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Thu May 22, 2008 11:26 am

judgment_arms wrote:It’s two separate thoughts, just the same way as the first amendment grants freedom of speech, press, and religion.

No it isn't, the first part is the rational for the second part. In the 1st amendment the "speech, press and religion" are all parts of the overall concept of "speech". I seriously doubt the framers stuck two completely unrelated ideas into the same sentence, i.e., "Militia is important, people can have guns" without intending that the two concepts are dependent on each other.

Do you even know what a militia is? It’s like the military ‘cept you bring your own gun (byog).

And it still says the right of the people not the government or the militiamen.

Do you know what "a well regulated militia" is? It ain't Joe Sixpack with a Saturday Night Special. Yes, it says "people" but it clearly does not say anything about the "people" protecting themselves in any way except in the normal activities of a militia. Militias are military units, not police units. A militia is not a posse.

Now MrCrowley said no more gun politics, and I’m about to leave, so this is the end of this argument.

Now we have reached the end of the argument because my superior logic has you squriming like a worm on a hook.

:roll:
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Thu May 22, 2008 11:35 am

TurboSuper wrote:Not to mention human stampedes, as funny as they may sound, can actully kill people.

Then do what I do when the classroom door is packed at the end of a lesson, and I'm impatient - escape through a window.

It's not recommended if you're on anything other than either the ground or first floor though. Falling more than one floor tends to hurt.
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Unread postAuthor: brogdenlaxmiddie » Thu May 22, 2008 2:52 pm

I agree with the judge... and turbosuper. The right for people to carry guns has been infringed on. However, a fourteen year old has no right to carry a gun to school. Besides, its much easier to carry a knife...


edit- woops... totally didn't see the other pages. Sorry crowley for goin on about it :)
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Thu May 22, 2008 3:57 pm

judgment_arms wrote:Also, what happens if the kid brings in homemade frags, one for each room…
Or places bombs throughout the year in each room, then brings the gun and gets a lockdown place and then detonates the bombs…

Watch your words.
You may inspire people......

Im glad that here in the netherlands we dont use lockdowns.

What would you do if you were in a lockdown? (assuming you dont have a weapon, and knowing there is a possible gun/bomb threat)
I think I would just try to get out anyway and run off, saying:
"Screw you guys! See you later, unless ur all dead." xD
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Thu May 22, 2008 4:35 pm

jimmy101 wrote:Now we have reached the end of the argument because my superior logic has you squriming like a worm on a hook.

:roll:

I have a very good counter to all of your statements, but because I don’t want a Mod mad at me I’m not going to say any thing else on the subject.
For the record, I’m not squirming in the least; actually I’m laughing, ‘cause you think I you got me, but in reality you don’t.

If I was in a lockdown I’d do two things:
First I’d try and figure out why I, being a homeschooler, am at a public school.
Second I’d probably just leave, I mean, I don’t go to the school so why should I bother sticking around when there’s an armed gunman… on the other hand leaving could make me a target for either the gunman or SWAT, so… yeah, I think I’d just leave.
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Unread postAuthor: blind909 » Thu May 22, 2008 5:07 pm

today there was another arrest, this kid named devin, who sits right behing me in my 6 th period class was caught today with a .38 magnum. and it is all gang related. they all are bloods, krips, and gurchins(sp?), and yesterday a kid named ramen was shot in the leg in a gang fight, and hes only 13 yrs old, it is scary now adays.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Thu May 22, 2008 5:51 pm

Anyone backing kids having firearms in school should be immediately enrolled there as pupil or staff.

I've been in some seven odd schools/colleges and there's been more chance of someone being busted for smoking (and in later establishments) cannabis than there was a weapons carrying or use offence.

A couple in any given class would be likely to have a penknife but no way in hell would it have been for defence/offence. A heck of a lot more likely to be for desk vandalism while the teacher was out.

One guy managed to saw a fist sized hole in a science lab desk over the course of a year....
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Unread postAuthor: Sticky_Tape » Thu May 22, 2008 6:26 pm

psycix wrote:
judgment_arms wrote:Also, what happens if the kid brings in homemade frags, one for each room…
Or places bombs throughout the year in each room, then brings the gun and gets a lockdown place and then detonates the bombs…

Watch your words.
You may inspire people......

Im glad that here in the netherlands we dont use lockdowns.

What would you do if you were in a lockdown? (assuming you dont have a weapon, and knowing there is a possible gun/bomb threat)
I think I would just try to get out anyway and run off, saying:
"Screw you guys! See you later, unless ur all dead." xD

Ok in a lock down are you forced to stay in the class or are you allowed the right to leave? I think I would do what you said get the hell out why would you want to be one of the hundreds of sitting ducks waiting for the hunter? I don't care how SAFE they say lockdowns are I would leave.
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Unread postAuthor: potatoflinger » Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm

At my school when we go on lockdown (usually once a month as a drill*) the teacher in each classroom has all of the students in the room sit in a corner where they are out of sight from the door/window next to the door, shuts the blinds and windows, then the teacher shuts the door and tells us to be quiet. When another teacher wants to get into the room, they have to take off their teaching license and slide it under the door so that the teacher in the room can tell who it is. Anyone who is in a hallway at the time of the lockdown is supposed to go in the nearest classroom, bathroom, etc. and lock the door.

*The school says that it's a drill for if someone came into the school with a gun, but what really happens is when all of the students are unable to look out the window next to the door, the school cop along with the principals walk around searching the lockers for drugs.
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Unread postAuthor: cdheller » Thu May 22, 2008 6:56 pm

jimmy101 wrote:Notice the reference to a Militia and the Security of the State. It says nothing about the security of an individual. The sentence can easily be read as the right of the people to bear arms is gauranteed in as far as they are needed to protect the state.

The quote from A. Hitler is just stupid. Many contries have full gun registration, Canada for example, and they aren't on a path of world domination, restriction of personal freedoms, genocide are any of the other things A. Hitler is rightly condemend for. Besides, I'm sure I can find a couple really nice quotes from Adolph that exactly match things R. Reagan said about the importance of a ginormous military.


Thru the winter (fur) season most of the farm kids brought their best fox,coyote,wolf gun in their car or truck to school {Kansas late 60s 70s} I guess different ,time different mindset.
soo the concept that you could get in trouble for a pocket knife really gives me a hard time.

the thought you wouldn't give or get a asswhipping without weapons in school pretty much throws me for a loop too

The 1st 10 amendments to the U.S. are known as the bill of rights.
they recognize individual (presonal) rights.
You are picking one out and saying it is a power given to the state?
redefining the word people for 1 amendment out of 10?
you are right
your logic defies me.

the U.S.A. supreme court is hearing a case that may decide the right of citizen vs state argument ,,Heller(no known relation)vs D.C. oral arguments are done ,waiting on ruling.
Heller has a pretty good shot at knocking down the D.C.(district of crooks)
ban on the rights of citizens to defend them selfs with handguns.
(yaa Heller,Go Heller ,Rah Rah Heller)
yea I'm pulling for the guy



You are right.
there are some disarmed countries that dont massacre their subjects , however you dont ever find it happening in a country where the citizens have the equivalent weapons as the common foot soldier
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Thu May 22, 2008 8:36 pm

It's heading towards guns vs no guns x ten thousand pages with hundreds of translations of what that ancient bit of paper actually meant.

No one really gives a dam, its all status defending in those arguments.

Back on the topic of Blind909 being in a school with several gun, gang and shooting incidents.
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